Thread: Questioning chirine ba kal - part II

Posted again--with the Tekumel Foundation disclaimer added, so nobody gets in trouble.

Blaise

Originally Posted by bconsidine

Posted again--with the Tekumel Foundation disclaimer added, so nobody gets in trouble.

Blaise

Excellent background. I will certainly incorporate this into "my Tekumel."
Ridiculous that you have to put that silly disclaimer on your write up. Oh well, those are the rules.

Shemek

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

Agreed. I've been asked to be part of my own forum, and like with the various conventions (Gary Con and Gamehole Con come instantly to mind) that I've been asked to appear at to talk about Tekumel and run games at, the hassle from the TF makes it simply unrealistic. I post here because Bren asked me to, and I can - perhaps - stay because of the past history between Dr. Raymond and RPG Pundit re 'consultantgate'.

Consultantgate? Do tell oh Lord Chirine.

Shemek

Originally Posted by Shemek hiTankolel

Consultantgate? Do tell oh Lord Chirine.

Shemek

This goes back to the early days of the OSR and TARGA. Dr. Raymond, in a conversation with me when he was trying to impress me with his standing as a Very Important Person in the OSR, told me that in his capacity of president of TARGA he'd been trying to get both Pundit and Zak Smith (he of "I Hit It With My Axe" fame" banned / removed / ostracized from the OSR as "unwholesome" due to their politics and general immorality. As was pointed out by both ETOB and Chigowiz in Part I of this thread, this viewpoint is all I had for years until they both stepped up to the plate and gave me more - and less biased - data. Getting a better timeline of events from the both of them was very useful, as it shed a lot of light on the data I had been given and reinforced some conclusions I made based on what I was being told at that point in time. Their information on the events and conversations I saw and heard was very useful to me, even if it did accelerate my getting less and less interested in the 'mainstream' of gaming. And, as I've mentioned on a number of occasions, I report what I saw and heard as best I can, based on the notes and observations I make at the time. The data is what it is; I'm always delighted to get new data that sheds light on some subject, and happy to add it to my archives.

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

This goes back to the early days of the OSR and TARGA. Dr. Raymond, in a conversation with me when he was trying to impress me with his standing as a Very Important Person in the OSR, told me that in his capacity of president of TARGA he'd been trying to get both Pundit and Zak Smith (he of "I Hit It With My Axe" fame" banned / removed / ostracized from the OSR as "unwholesome" due to their politics and general immorality. As was pointed out by both ETOB and Chigowiz in Part I of this thread, this viewpoint is all I had for years until they both stepped up to the plate and gave me more - and less biased - data. Getting a better timeline of events from the both of them was very useful, as it shed a lot of light on the data I had been given and reinforced some conclusions I made based on what I was being told at that point in time. Their information on the events and conversations I saw and heard was very useful to me, even if it did accelerate my getting less and less interested in the 'mainstream' of gaming. And, as I've mentioned on a number of occasions, I report what I saw and heard as best I can, based on the notes and observations I make at the time. The data is what it is; I'm always delighted to get new data that sheds light on some subject, and happy to add it to my archives.

I see. Essentially, he was being what C.S Lewis referred to as "moral busybodies." Until I became active on this forum I had no idea of the wider gaming community, and the politics. I've been pretty insular in my gaming, playing with essentially the same players for the last 34 years or so.
I think that the best thing for Tekumel would be for Mrs Barker to have the entire foundation abolished, or have an entirely new set of directors installed. The current group seems to be either inept or actively doing their best to drive the whole thing into the ground. Either way they need to be tossed to the curb. Ridiculous restrictions on what can be published and how, placing their names right besides Phil's as if they somehow were responsible for creating Tekumel. Nanos gigantum humeris insidentes.
I just don't get it. It's only a fucking game, not the holy writ of the Almighty! Why the hell wouldn't they do everything in their power to expand the fan base and get more people playing? BTW, this last sentence is rhetorical as you've already explained their motivations on numerous occasions and no need to drag it up again. For some reason I keep being surprised by the sheer stupidity of it all, and I seem to keep forgetting that there are a lot of silly people in our hobby.
Any way, thanks for the clarification.

Shemek

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

This goes back to the early days of the OSR and TARGA. Dr. Raymond, in a conversation with me when he was trying to impress me with his standing as a Very Important Person in the OSR, told me that in his capacity of president of TARGA he'd been trying to get both Pundit and Zak Smith (he of "I Hit It With My Axe" fame" banned / removed / ostracized from the OSR as "unwholesome" due to their politics and general immorality. As was pointed out by both ETOB and Chigowiz in Part I of this thread, this viewpoint is all I had for years until they both stepped up to the plate and gave me more - and less biased - data. Getting a better timeline of events from the both of them was very useful, as it shed a lot of light on the data I had been given and reinforced some conclusions I made based on what I was being told at that point in time. Their information on the events and conversations I saw and heard was very useful to me, even if it did accelerate my getting less and less interested in the 'mainstream' of gaming. And, as I've mentioned on a number of occasions, I report what I saw and heard as best I can, based on the notes and observations I make at the time. The data is what it is; I'm always delighted to get new data that sheds light on some subject, and happy to add it to my archives.

This is all because you didn't join the pogrom? Sweet creamery butter! (And "by this", I mean the forum bannings. From what I've gathered, the rest of the crap seems to stretch back to Barker's basement.)

Blaise

Originally Posted by Shemek hiTankolel

I see. Essentially, he was being what C.S Lewis referred to as "moral busybodies." Until I became active on this forum I had no idea of the wider gaming community, and the politics. I've been pretty insular in my gaming, playing with essentially the same players for the last 34 years or so.
I think that the best thing for Tekumel would be for Mrs Barker to have the entire foundation abolished, or have an entirely new set of directors installed. The current group seems to be either inept or actively doing their best to drive the whole thing into the ground. Either way they need to be tossed to the curb. Ridiculous restrictions on what can be published and how, placing their names right besides Phil's as if they somehow were responsible for creating Tekumel. Nanos gigantum humeris insidentes.
I just don't get it. It's only a fucking game, not the holy writ of the Almighty! Why the hell wouldn't they do everything in their power to expand the fan base and get more people playing? BTW, this last sentence is rhetorical as you've already explained their motivations on numerous occasions and no need to drag it up again. For some reason I keep being surprised by the sheer stupidity of it all, and I seem to keep forgetting that there are a lot of silly people in our hobby.
Any way, thanks for the clarification.

Shemek

You're welcome. I don't understand it either; I thought that the idea of an organization to manage the IP was a good idea, which is why I supported the formation of the Foundation in the first place. They felt, like a half-dozen groups and people have since, that it was vital for the future of Tekumel that I be onboard and working for them. I was offered the 'General Manager' position, which I declined after it became very clear that I would be doing all the actual work of managing the IP and dealing with everyone; it was very clear that this position would not be a paid one, and that any and all credit for anything that got done would be given to the members of the board. In short, it was pretty much the situation that I'd had to deal with in the late 1980s - with the very same cast of characters calling the shots and being the "Finger-pointing and Jeering Committee". I thought that as it had been untenable then, it would be untenable now. If I may be allowed a snarky comment, I think that the track record of the Tekumel Foundation speaks for itself as to just how well their business model has worked in actual practice.

So, I paint my figures, build my models, and enjoy the peace and quiet of the basement.

Originally Posted by bconsidine

This is all because you didn't join the pogrom? Sweet creamery butter! (And "by this", I mean the forum bannings. From what I've gathered, the rest of the crap seems to stretch back to Barker's basement.)

Blaise

Correct. You either support them wholeheartedly, or you're their vile enemy. I've been the latter since 1985 or so, for daring to do the best job that I can. And, since I won't lie for them or make up 'evidence' to support their rather bizarre ideas, I'm doubly 'The Enemy'.