Thread: Questioning chirine ba kal - part II

Originally Posted by Gronan of Simmerya

Honestly, I also noted a deathly fear of making a decision.

That's also under "too much ego" syndrome, Glorious General.

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

But, The Authority wasn't playing in Phil's campaigns then; he literally doesn't know anything about the early days. So, we don't talk about those days, or the people who did all those publications and artwork and stuff - they don't exist in the Official Approved Tekumel (TM), and will be written out of history. That's why you'll never see any of our old 'zines republished - it's an era that Does Not Exist.

Of course, we can't let Other People having had an influence on Tekumel, can we?
Phil only gets a pass because he's dead already.

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

Yep; welcome to my life.

Agreed. One of these days, they are going to provoke somebody with deep pockets into litigation, and then the house of cards will come crashing down.

He did, actually, but the TF was quite adamant that ANY compensation, in ANY form, was subject to their policies and thus I had to pay them a percentage for ANYTHING I might have gotten for my painting work. Soooo, being the Mister Poo-Poo Butt that I am, I agreed to paint the figures for my friend with the proviso that I receive nothing. At all.

Likewise, by the way, if I went to some convention as a guest of that convention and I was provided a hotel room and a badge, the TF insists that I must pay them a percentage of the value of any such; they'll let me know who much I owe them, after I declare any compensation that I receive to them.

We live in fascinating times, my General.

Well, in such cases I'd declare "nothing", and let them prove otherwise.

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

Nope. They are, by their own admission, dead broke and not able to get anybody to give them big piles of money so that they can go to conventions like North Texas RPG Con and be Big Names in the OSR. They just keep getting more and more desperate, as all the propaganda that they were spreading back in the 1990s and 2000s about The One True Way To Play and We're The Tekumel Elite have come home to roost.

My favorite remark made by one of them - I think you can guess who - when they got their office space was "Now we can have wine- and cheese-tasting parties!"

Huzzah!

How can dead broke people sue anyone?

Originally Posted by Baron

I'd just like to point out that I downloaded Tirikelu so many years ago that I've lost count. And when Dave recently provided spiffy 2nd edition revised PDFs, I downloaded them too, and decided to re-read them. I saw his post about printing out the PDF as a book. I thought, "Well, I probably don't really need to do that, and had better not spend the money."

And once I saw that Dave had been ordered to pull that POD demand from the printing site, I immediately went and got mine printed.

It's a matter of principle!

Congratulations for sticking to your principles, Baron!

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

So they shut down Dave, eh? Bad move, this, and certain to cause a certain level of annoyance out in the wider world.

On the other hand, it's also typical of the way that their personal prestige and control issues have come to rule the roost. I could tell you a lot more stories like these, but it's a nice evening and I'm enjoying painting my Romans. However, I will give you a sample of what I have to deal with...

Back a while ago, a very old and very dear friend asked me to paint his huge collection of Tekumel figures for him, in the same style as I had and was painting mine. I agreed, because he's my friend. He then offered to pay me for my time, and I told him that he should think about what he thought that it might be worth and make his decision accordingly - I did not quote him a rate or anything, because he's an old friend and I like painting figures. He happened to mention at a well-know southern Wisconsin game convention to the TF person who was there that he was doing this; I then got a rocket from the TF insisting that by "accepting any kind of compensation for the use of the Tekumel (TM) IP, I was in violation of the TF's sole and exclusive license for the commercial exploitation of the Tekumel (TM) IP" and that I was required by the TF to get a license from them and pay them a fee for said license as well as a percentage of whatever compensation my friend might choose to give me. I declined, and so my friend will get his figures painted for free; the TF, by their ham-handed tactics, will get nothing.

Please do keep in mind that these are the same people who ruined my relationship with Phil, so that they could get to where they are today.

Hmmm I suppose that is a typical reaction from people who don't understand IP laws. The 'rights' to all the art (the figures and the paint job) all belong to *you* personally. Unless of course you had an official 'work for hire' relationship with Phil. (which would require paper work and official compensation - and probably proper tax filings).

So, even if Phil (or anyone) owned a figure - the paint job and any mods you did, IP wise, are yours. Derivative work - such as photo's of said figures and their painting - would also belong to you unless they made 'meaningful' changes to them. (See the 'Obama' hope poster lawsuit as an example).

I'm sure it's not worth pursuing but if they do something stupid, it's important to know what side of the IP law you are on!

Originally Posted by Baron

I'd just like to point out that I downloaded Tirikelu so many years ago that I've lost count. And when Dave recently provided spiffy 2nd edition revised PDFs, I downloaded them too, and decided to re-read them. I saw his post about printing out the PDF as a book. I thought, "Well, I probably don't really need to do that, and had better not spend the money."

And once I saw that Dave had been ordered to pull that POD demand from the printing site, I immediately went and got mine printed.

It's a matter of principle!

Agreed! Bravo!

I still think that this is a dumb decision on the TF's part. Back when I was still in their good graces, they wanted my input on stuff like this; I suggested that they needed to have a category of licensing for fan-made projects like this as a way to encourage people. They blew me off, and this is the result.

Originally Posted by AsenRG

Of course, we can't let Other People having had an influence on Tekumel, can we?
Phil only gets a pass because he's dead already.

Well, in such cases I'd declare "nothing", and let them prove otherwise.

How can dead broke people sue anyone?

Phil does not get a pass, actually; see the various posts on the TF Facebook page about how his work must be "re-evaluated" and "properly interpreted" before it can be released to the public.

In the US civil legal system, you can file lawsuits for next to nothing, and force the defendants to pay through the nose to get rid of you. See also the saga of the folks at Prenda Law.

Originally Posted by Horu hiFa'asu

Hmmm I suppose that is a typical reaction from people who don't understand IP laws. The 'rights' to all the art (the figures and the paint job) all belong to *you* personally. Unless of course you had an official 'work for hire' relationship with Phil. (which would require paper work and official compensation - and probably proper tax filings).

So, even if Phil (or anyone) owned a figure - the paint job and any mods you did, IP wise, are yours. Derivative work - such as photo's of said figures and their painting - would also belong to you unless they made 'meaningful' changes to them. (See the 'Obama' hope poster lawsuit as an example).

I'm sure it's not worth pursuing but if they do something stupid, it's important to know what side of the IP law you are on!

You may want to have a read of the TF's published policies on publication and ownership. The IP lawyers that I've consulted have been utterly fascinated by these. The phrase "novel legal constructions" was used quite a bit.

And no, it's not really worth pursuing. This thing called 'gaming' is a hobby, and is supposed to be fun. If I wanted to be a lawyer, I'd be one.

Originally Posted by chirine ba kal

Phil does not get a pass, actually; see the various posts on the TF Facebook page about how his work must be "re-evaluated" and "properly interpreted" before it can be released to the public.

I think they've removed these posts as there really is nothing on the FB page. The last posting was from October 2016, as far as I can see, and the earliest one is October 2015. I don't use FB at all, so I might be missing something.
Their blog doesn't seem to be much better, but hey, at least "Twas the Night Before Chitlasha" is on there.

Originally Posted by Hrugga

All this talk of the TF reminds me of something...

Something familiar,
Something peculiar,
Something for everyone:
A comedy tonight!

Something appealing,
Something appalling,
Something for everyone:
A comedy tonight!

Thank you Gents,

H;0)

Bravo!

Originally Posted by Shemek hiTankolel

I think they've removed these posts as there really is nothing on the FB page. The last posting was from October 2016, as far as I can see, and the earliest one is October 2015. I don't use FB at all, so I might be missing something.
Their blog doesn't seem to be much better, but hey, at least "Twas the Night Before Chitlasha" is on there.

I'm not surprised. I'm not on Facebook, but a Tekumel fan screen-captured the fracas that erupted when one of the TF Directors announced that he'd found Phil's 1975 letter to a friend that detailed what he wanted to do and where he wanted to go with Tekumel. I'd seen the letter in 2011, but was told not to say anything about it by another Director who was afraid that it might conflict with what he wanted to do with Tekumel. The two of them got into quite the argument in Facebook posts, which are now in my archives. It makes for a very interesting look into the internal relationships of the TF.

They've never understood the value or need for good public relations and/or keeping a good relationship with the fan base.