These messages are the accumulation of the messages that were sent out on the Blue Room email list between May 1995 and June 2000. A large portion of the information is directly from Professor M.A.R Barker. When the list members joined during the time the list was active, they agreed to refrain from sharing this data with non list members. When the list ended, it was urged that the data be made available to non-list Tekumel fans, and it seemed like a good idea all around. I only ask that if you download these digests, or have received them in some other way, please respect the agreements the list members made, and refrain from passing them around and instead point people to the Tekumel web site, www.tekumel.com so that they can download them for themselves, and see all the other material available on the Tekumel.com web site. Many Thanks. Chris Davis Moderator: Blue Room mailing list Creative Commons - Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs CC BY-NC-ND BLUE ROOM ARCHIVE -- VOLUME 29 [29 November 1998 - 20 December 1998] 841: More Genetics 842: More Worms of Death/Night 843: Casual Tekumel 844: More Reality/Hypothesis 845: More Thursday Night Group Summaries 846: Salarvya 847: Being Armed in Cities 848: Dogs on Tekumel 849: More on Maps 850: More on Maps 851: Cows on Tekumel 852: More Food of the Ssu 853: UCon Tekumel Track Report 854: More Party Mix 855: More Food of the Ssu 856: Northeast Frontier Maps Status 857: More Thursday Night Reports 858: Tekumel Gamer Directory 859: Shuqu 860: Hlaka Eyes 861: Casual Tekumel Response 862: More Food of the Ssu 863: More Dogs on Tekumel 864: More Reality of Tekumel 865: More Cows on Tekumel 866: More Food of the Ssu 867: More Dogs on Tekumel 868: Western Lands/Chlen hide 869: More Casual Tekumel 870: Hlaka Eyes Response ******************************* //841 [Moderator's Note: Joe Saul swerves the Genetics topic back into Tekumel. ] [ He asks some questions about the people of Tekumel. How] [ about it Professor? Any clear-cut answers to the ques- ] [ tions below? ] >[Moderator's Note: Ian Atkinson writes about the genetics question. While ] >[ interesting, this is getting more about genetcis than ] >[ Tekumel. If you want to further comment on this topic ] >[ let's try to get back to Tekumel. ] I can do that. ;-) >All of this is speculative, but if there's any truth to it then the height >increases seen in current populations are partially due to improvements in >nutrition one or two generations ago and the limits to growth of a really >well nourished human population remain unknown. Until different racial >groups have all enjoyed western style food supplies for a couple of >generations we have no way of knowing if there are any inherent height >differences between the races. Some questions for speculation: 1. Are higher-clan Tsolyani larger than lower-clan Tsolyani? They certainly eat better... 2. Are Tsolyani from the "breadbasket" regions larger than those from fringe areas where life is harder? 3. Are Tsolyani, as a group, larger than members of less-organized and poorer populations? Dunno if the Professor himself will be willing to kick in his observations, but none of the above would surprise me. Joe ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //842 [Moderator's Note: Joe Saul further elaborates on the Worms of Death/Night. ] >[Moderator's Note: I sit corrected. Joe is absolutely correct. ] > >>[Moderator's Note: Joe Saul responds about the Worms of Night. They are ] > Uh-uh. That's the Worms of Death. The clay coin thing is the T-10 variant > of the spell, but it only imprisons the less dangerous kind of worm. The T-9 > variant creates Worms of Night, which are nastier than Worms of Death. This discussion reminds me of something that happened in my campaign... en route to an Imperial Prison (as messengers, not inmates), their ship was attacked by pirates. One character (Mikusa) had one of those Eyes that creates Worms of Death, and used it to good effect on several boarders. (The briefing she got from her clan didn't include the fact that they don't go away afterwards...) After the battle, another character (Arkhane), who didn't know what Mikusa had done, spotted the worms writhing around on the deck looking for targets, and pointed them out excitedly to the ship's captain: "Worms of Sarku! Worms of Sarku!" The seasoned captain (whose clan was lower than Arkhane's, but is an elder, experienced, and after all on the deck of his own clan's ship) looked up at Arkhane with an implacable, but mildly curious, expression: "Why are you swearing at me, son?" -- Joe ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //843 [Moderator's Note: Peter Huston asks about a casual (a more Beer and ] [ Pretzels) kind of Tekumel. ] Has anyone ever come up with a casual Tekumel game? [Moderator's Note: I don't know if you would call it casual, but we used ] [ to have what we called spell wars. Two extremely pow-] [ erful mages with unlimited spell library at their dis-] [ posal. It required 2 or more players, and one referee] [ (to adjudicate the play). A list of spells were all ] [ the rules necessary, and the arbiter had final say on ] [ all matters. No dice, no character sheets, etc. I ] [ rather enjoyed it. ] Peter Huston ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //844 [Moderator's Note: A couple of skeptics!! Sean Boomer and James Maliszewski] [ don't buy the Reality of Tekumel. They also don't ] [ necessarily buy into Keith's hypothesis. I'll let the ] [ Professor, Keith, and the rest of the Thursday night ] [ crowd fill you in on details of the accuracy of Keith's ] [ hypothesis. In the limited experience of my last trip to] [ Minneapolis, it would be my opinion that Keith's ] [ hypothesis seems right on target. ] Sean Boomer writes... Well, with all due respect, this statement is made by Keith on the big assumption that the Mu'uglavyani scholar priest is anything other than a convert who happens to be interested in the Bednalljan times. Nothing in the quoted excerpt from the Tekumel Journal really indicates anything other than that. Doubtless, if Tekumel was "uplinked" through the Professor, he would have noted this gent's nefarious scheme to begin with. Even if I bought the Tekumel Uplink Theory (which I certainly do not!), I would proffer that his origins and interests are probably nothing more than coincidental. People do have conversion experiences, and generals can be great antiquarians. That does not follow that they are plotting world domination. Looking through history one notes countless such coincidences, which are eagerly seized upon by conspiracy theorists. Both Mayans and Egyptians used the pyrimidal shape in their monumental architecture, therefore, there must be a link, for example. The logic here is flawed, of course, since the coincidence implies nothing of the sort. At any rate, guys, it is a game, an amazing creation by an amazing man. Tolkien said that truly gifted authors were "subcreators" who reflected the Creator's majesty by creating worlds as He did. Perhaps this is what has been affecting some people on the list - the Professor's amazing world, created from the strands of his own imagination. But imagination is what it is. I think that a man educated in the languages and cultures of many societies, gifted with genius, is more than capable of creating a rich and varied world like Tekumel. Robert E. Howard once claimed that Conan seemed to be talking through his work, yet it would be ludicrous to suggest that Cimmeria ever existed. Similarly, while the Professor seems at times to be actually seeing Tekumel, it does not follow that he actually is seeing a physical place. I'm sorry, friends, but I have to say, Tekumel only exists in our imaginations. Perhaps it is best that way. Sean Boomer -- James Maliszewski writes... Forgive my skepticism, but why is there anything odd about the idea that someone like Phil should remember a little tidbit of information about Tekumel that he wrote 22 years ago? Don't you ever remember anything from that far in the past? Believe me, I can vividly remember details of 1977, the year I was in the second grade and saw Star Wars for the first time. I see no reason why Phil's remembrance of something he wrote at the same time means that Tekumel is real and that he's "channeling" it through to our time. Again, forgive my tone, but that's just very bad reasoning. Memory is a tricky thing. It works strangely at times. Yet, that's no reason to assume there's anything supernatural going on here. James ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //845 [Moderator's Note: Peter Gifford adds his encouragement to the crowd in ] [ Minneapolis for some type of running summary to the rest] [ of the world. He would even compile the summaries on ] [ his terrific web site. ] >[Moderator's Note: So, whaddaya say up there in Minneapolis way... I know] >[ many of you take notes (but is Steve on the list?) I ] >[ don't think so. Maybe he could photocopy and mail me ] >[ his notes and I could transcribe them (or we could set ] >[ up a cadre of typers, as many of you have volunteered).] I'd love to put this up on the Tekumel:The World of the Petal Throne site as a regular feature. My updates have been pretty infrequent lately; my apologies. Some regular input like this would be highly appreciated to keep the content on the site 'alive'; all I'd have to do is set up the design and layout, and leave the copy to those better at writing. Regards, Peter Gifford Tekumel: The World of the Petal Throne Complex Cultures on an Imaginary World http://www.universalhead.com.au/tekumel ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //846 [Moderator's Note: James Snead asks about Jgresh. I am sending this to the ] [ list at large, hoping that some of the Thursday night ] [ group will reply, and others who have knowledge of the ] [ areas in question. I am at home today, so I'll probably ] [ send another set of 5 messages after this set. ] I'm curious about some of the more remote regions of Salarvya, particularly Jgresh. Perhaps the professor could supply some information about this fabled locality; is the modern city known for more than its antiquity? Are there scholars there who delve into its past? What about monuments and landmarks? Thanks, James Snead ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //847 [Moderator's Note: Bill Faulkner asks about the freedom to carry arms in ] [ the cities of Tekumel. ] Bill Faulkner here. A question for Phil. What is the attitude about ordinary citizens (not members of the city or temple guards or members of the military) going around armed (swords, pole-arms, armor, shields, etc.). My guess that its really not much of a problem, since normal citizens realize that it just uncouth to walk around the city in this manner. Some important people may have personal guards who are armed, but not the individual himself. The only real problem would be foriegners. but in Tsolyanu,at least, they are more or less restricted to the foreigner's quarter, where no self-respecting Tsolyani would go. On a similiar note, how much freedom of movement do individuals really have? For example, are travel papers required for everybody (or just foreigners)? Obviously, most normal Tsolyani would only travel when needed by clan or temple business. What I'm talking about are the abnormal adventurers (especially foreigners), who want to travel somewhere for adventuring purposes. Basically, what level of impositions do the governments put on the freedom of individuals. Any comments about this general subject would be greatly appreciated. [Moderator's Note: My guess is that if the city is Tsolyani, and you are ] [ Tsolyani, you can pretty much carry any weapon you ] [ desire (within general safety limits). Personal arms ] [ are what I am thinking about. If you are a foreigner,] [ there is probably some paperwork you would have to ] [ carry to identify you, if there was some type of prob-] [ lem and to prove you have the means to responsibly ] [ deal with any problems that occur. This is my feeling] [ on the subject. Professor Barker will probably con- ] [ firm/deny/elaborate on the subject. ] Bill Faulkner ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //848 [Moderator's Note: Mike Wayne writes about dogs on Tekumel. ] What follows are some observations, questions, and opinions resulting from a recent visit to Tekumel. They do not necessarily correspond to the REAL Tekumel. Some concepts I haven't firmed up, because I don't want to twist Tekumel into a westernizedfeudaljungleintherenaissance in my mental image. Dogs were taken to Tekumel and perform their traditional roles as hunting partners, herders, and household guardians (per the sourcebook v1?), but they are far less diverse than on modern Terra (the AKC has I believe 131 breeds while the FCI, the international AKC, has almost 200 breeds). [Moderator's Note: The sourcebook indeed states that dogs and cats were ] [ brought to Tekumel and play their traditional roles. ] I suspect that the sporting and hound groups are limited to equivalents of the Saluki and Whippet, (NB many Middle Eastern cultures consider the dog 'unclean' but respect the Saluki greatly enough that he has been treated as 'not a dog'). There may also be a counterpart to the modern bloodhound. The Whippet is probably the most common since his smaller size and terrier background make him a good all 'rounder---able to course game, chase vermin, and be an easily accommodated companion. The Terrier group is represented by an Airedale analogue. The Airedale analogue is big and can hunt in very rough terrain due to his Otter hound ancestry. He also makes a good guard dog (the first police dogs were Airedales and they have an excellent reputation from service in WW I). Herding dogs are almost exclusively a variant of the Old Earth Border Collie, albeit a smooth coated version. (NB All the dogs on Tekumel have short coats or wiry coats, any other coat is too hot and was bred out.) (More NB Several cultures on Terra have tried to breed herding dogs from stock on hand. In general the more success they had, the closer the came to recreating the Border Collie). A few Mals are used for herding, but they are not very common. Guard/Protection/War dogs are essentially variants of the Old Earth Belgian Malanois, a close relative of the German Shepherd. It weighs from 35-65 pounds on average, though some males hit in the 90 pound range. They are used on Old Earth as police dogs, Search and Rescue dogs, herders, and some of everything else. They can be HIGHLY trained. Airedales and Rotwielers also are used for this function. Rottwielers because of their size, may be used as draft dogs (they were on this world), but I don't know if the Real Tekumel has any use of dogs as draft animals. Native Americans, both in North and South America, made extensive use of dogs as draft animals. Pit Bulls may have made it to Tekumel where they are used as Chlen herders (I haven't decided yet). On Terra Pit Bulls were breed as butchers dogs able to cut out a cow or bull from a herd and hold it for the butcher to kill. NB Pit bulls make LOUSY protection animals. The nature of pit fighting requires a handler to often separate his dog from another. Dogs that would turn on a human were (and are) relentlessly culled/killed. So we have 2 (or 3 is bloodhounds made it) sight hounds, 1 large Terrier, a herding dog, and 2 working dogs (and maybe a Pete the Pit Bull). I think I've kept within the available source material. I have no idea of what the dogs are called on Tekumel . Any body know what the breeds are called and common names for pets on Tekumel? The biggest possible deviation from 'real' Tekumel is in allowing dogs used as draft animals. If allowed they could become pervasive in the culture. I can imagine long chains of a dozen dogs with packs (or even small carts as has been done on Terra) along the Sakbe roads. Food peddlers in town may have a dog drawn cart to carry their goods. Opinions? On Terra, the domestic ferret has a long history of hunting use. Pop one down a rabbit hole where he/she will cause the rabbit to bolt from the hole, whereupon your trusty whippet will run him down for your lunch. Rats were at one time treated with this same method. Do ferrets exist on Tekumel? Are they used in this manner? Is it common? Does anybody know just how smart a Kuni bird is? How long do they take to train? I know from the sourcebook that hawks and falcons made it to Tekumel, but how common are they in relation to the Kuni bird? Do they imply different social status as different raptor species ownership did during the middle ages? You think this letter is boring? Just wait for my letter where I file the serial numbers off of Traditional Chinese Medicine and make it the Tekumel Healthcare System!! mike.wayne@us.origin-it.com ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //849 [Moderator's Note: James Eckman writes about Maps on Tekumel. ] re: Gordon's comments on maps. Some cultures like Japan developed maps very much like the merchant maps developed on Tekumel. The amount of abstraction in any form of drawing is high and there are some Earth cultures that cannot understand 2D representations of 3D objects. (I think UNESCO had this problem in Africa if I remember correctly) In the case of drafting, 150 years ago engineers received training as artists because engineering drawings consisted of realistic paintings or renderings of machines. A skilled engineer of that period would require quite a bit of training to read modern prints with their highly abstract and stylized symbols. It was actually a bottleneck of a kind since artistic drawings require more time to draw and don't reproduce via blueprint technology. ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //850 [Moderator's Note: Michael Cule also comments on Maps. I believe he comes ] [ closest to describing the mapping system of the people ] [ of Tekumel. At least the way I picture what Phil has ] [ said in prior messages. ] I was going through some old Blue Room messages when I came across the following line: >Tekumelani travellers are almost always going to be on foot and will move >slowly enough to get their information en route, And it struck me that the sort of map that Tekumelani travellers would make and use by land and by sea would be the rutter. Which is (for those who don't know) a set of instructions of how to get from point A to point B with landmarks and hints included. "To journey from Jakalla to Avanthe, the judicous traveller will leave by the third gate, taking care to depart as the sun's rays first tint the elevated walls...." This would be sufficiently 'elevated' to be acceptable to the scribes and also sufficiently practical to be of use. Comments? (Or has someone thought of this before?) -- Michael Cule ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //851 [Moderator's Note: Peter Huston writes about Cows on Tekumel. ] Did I ask this before or not? Another discrepancy which has always irked me is EPT says there are cows on Tekumel. The Sourcebook says definitely not. Pete Huston (Too tired to make a clever pun about Mooooooooo! "ugalavya!) [Moderator's Note: I just gave a very cursory glance to the EPT book and I] [ couldn't find a reference to cows. I don't have the ] [ book in electronic form , so I can't scan for it. You ] [ are correct in that the Sourcebook says no cows or pigs] [ were brought to Tekmuel. However, there is always an ] [ exception. The Imperial Zoological collection (located] [ in Avanthar--right Phil?) has numerous beasts that were] [ never really brought to Tekumel. It has a horse or 2 ] [ as I remember, and could have a cow and/or a pig. ] -- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //852 [Moderator's Note: Joe Saul writes on the Food of the Ssu. ] >The Ssu are considered horrid and unclean by most humans, and this would >preclude followers of Chiteng and Hrihayal from making use of the stuff. >The Tsolyani deities consider their practices to be "noble"; it would be >very "ignoble" to rub somebody's face in the Food of the Ssu! If I remember correctly, though, Food of the Ssu is listed as a toxin usable in assassination attempts. Will the assassin clans use it, or is that restricted to people operating completely outside civilized rules (e.g. Pariah Deity worshippers, Haida Pakalani) or inimical nonhumans? [Moderator's Note: As I remember it, a Sarku (was it a soldier or priest?) ] [ pushed someone into a Food of the Ssu plant in MoG. Or ] [ is my memory failing???? My guess is that there are ] [ those who would use it. ] Joe ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //853 [Moderator's Note: Joe Saul provides a report on the UCon convention's ] [ Tekumel Track success. ] Thanks to all those who participated, the UCon Tekumel Track was a great success! Those who came specifically for the Tekumel Track were able to play Tekumel events in *every schedule slot* during the weekend -- often two or more events at a time, at one point *three*. And there were quite a few. In addition to the locals, Tekumel Track attendees came to Ann Arbor from Virginia, New Jersey, Ontario (and not right across the border, either), Ohio (again not right across the border ;-), Pennsylvania, and California. Many people who had little or no contact with Tekumel prior to the convention saw the Tekumel Track materials or the events in the conbook and showed up to see what it was all about. From what I've heard, every one of the role-playing events had 1-4 new people in it. Some of them liked earlier events so much, they came to a bunch of later ones as well. Some converts were made this weekend... Clearly, the idea of piggybacking a Tekumel "mini-con" onto an established regional convention works well; without the rest of the con's being there, we would never have attracted new folks to the games. I'd like to thank everyone who participated, in any form, but special thanks to: Professor Barker, for answering Tekumel questions via speakerphone for nearly two hours, and then coming back and doing the conclusion of my live-action game (and putting up with the terrible offenses I may have inflicted upon the canon); David Aitken, who claims not to have run Tekumel face-to-face, for his wonderful scenario (with PC briefings printed on parchment, forsooth); Bob Dushay, for running not only the two events that were on the schedule, but also another as a filler when one GM had to cancel due to illness in his family; and John Schippers, for overcoming his "I don't know enough to run in this world" jitters and coming through with a Tsolyani horror scenario... Ron and Margaret Heintz, for coming down from Ontario to help David Aitken run his games... and Andy Lorince and Carl Brodt, for making the UCon dealers' room momentarily the best place to buy Tekumel materials in the world. Last, but not least, Lisa, my fiancee, for not only putting up with my running the Track, but also for running live Kevuk. If you missed this one, no worries; we'll be doing it again next year, at UCon 1999 -- November 12-14th 1999. Feel free to email me with ideas or offers to run games (jmsaul@umich.edu). Joe Saul jmsaul@umich.edu ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //854 [Moderator's Note: James Eckman writes about his experiences with more ] [ homogenous adventure parties. ] Of course it's also quite possible to run characters of the same clans and religion together. Some of the parties we have run in the past that are fairly monolithic are: A tomb robber err... guardian clan (Purple Tower?). When we needed expertise outside of our party, we would try to arrange something with our Uncle Egresh. Of course most of our adventures were aiding our clan or personal mischief. Some clans actually protested our ancient rite of accepting bribes! The nerve of them. Of course these tombs would suffer despoliation on a regular basis:) Other tasks included escorting other parties into the deeper tombs, not using any of our secret ways naturally, looking for lost visitors in the upper levels and general policing of the heavily frequented tomb areas. Also occasional trips to exchange information and items with more distant clan branches. Tribal primitives from I forget where, this was a short campaign, but we did have a shaman or two. You could also try military units, maybe intelligence, temples, universities, or clans that engage in trade. We never insisted on well balanced parties ala old D&D, use NPCs, relations and other methods to fill in those holes. ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //855 [Moderator's Note: Jack Bramah writes about the Food of the Ssu. In ] [ message 834, I didn't note that the Professor's response] [ should have said, George (as he was replying to George ] [ Hammond), not Gordon. ] >[Moderator's Note: Professor Barker replies to Gordon's comments on the Food] >[ of the Ssu. I am adding a question of my own at the end.] >>Whoever it is, it's not likely to be anyone nice... >You're right, George. It is *not* anyone nice... >[Moderator's Note: So why did the Priests of Ksarul develop the Food of Ssu] >[ temple spell? Was it simply because it is a good offen-] >[ sive and defensive spell? The plants are particularly ] >[ good weapons, since they are highly toxic and have a ] >[ high fear value. They also end up going away at the end] >[ of the duration, so they won't stay and cause long term ] >[ problems. I would imagine that any substance removed/ ] >[ collected from the plant would disappear at the duration] >[ of the spell, too. Just wondering. ] > >Regards, >Phil >----- >Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu >The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu >Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. Just as a thought - the Food of the Ssu in the spell has to come from somewhere. Given the nature of many of the Ksarul spells, isn't it possible that rather than being created from nowhere, what the spell does is to open up a nexus doorway to a place where there is Food of the Ssu already in existence and transport it thence? If so, is this a possible explanation for the mysterious cavern - the Temple reservoir (or "a" Temple reservoir)? -- Jack Bramah ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //856 [Moderator's Note: Carl Brodt reports that he is working on the Northeast ] [ Frontier maps and Gazeteer. ] I thought that I'd mention that I am transcribing the tapes done by Keith and Prof. Barker on the NE Frontier maps. I am about 3/4 finished with the first of the two tapes sent to me. Substantial editing needs to be done on my transcription, though, especially regarding the proper names. I do not have copies of the maps on hand (they are supposed to be forthcoming), and the words on the tape are often too soft or indistinct to hear clearly. So alot of guessing regarding spelling at this point in the draft ... I shall try to clean up the text once I finish with the first half of the transcription. [Moderator's Note: I am sure that we can get together with the Professor ] [ get you some assistance. ] ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //857 [Moderator's Note: Christopher Burnett writes in offering to provide some ] [ Thursday night summaries from years past. I would love] [ for you to provide some of those old summaries, and any ] [ newer ones you can provide. In or out of personna is ] [ fine by me. ] >Not merely interesting, but -fascinating-. Imagine the appearance >from some modern-day Burton -- in Minneapolis, say-- of a 'Thousand and One >Tsolyani Nights,' telling all the best-remembered tales from the Time Of No >Kings. >That would be... tremendous. (It might also be a lot of fun to -do-.) >[Moderator's Note: So, whaddaya say up there in Minneapolis way... I know] >[ many of you take notes (but is Steve on the list?) I ] >[ don't think so. Maybe he could photocopy and mail me ] >[ his notes and I could transcribe them (or we could set ] >[ up a cadre of typers, as many of you have volunteered).] Hi everybody, I'm Bear-a old-time gamer to the Thursday night who is "in-line" to start doing so again-sometime in April-I'm told! I've been thinking about doing reports (possibly in "persona" to my clan-brothers & sisters back "home") after each (gulp) gaming session. I've kept journals of my adventures back in the '80s & might be persuaded to try & decode my own hand-writeing If anyone cares. Is this the right venue? In persona or out? Does anyone really care? Let me know! YOURS IN THE EMERALD RADIANCE! ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //858 [Moderator's Note: James Maliszewski would like to put together the Tekumel] [ Gamers guide. I could send him all the membership info ] [ and let him put it together. If you have any concerns ] [ as to why I shouldn't do it, let me know. If I get no ] [ responses, I'll bundle up all your info and pass it to ] [ James. He can use this as a starting point. ] In my efforts to publicize and support Tekumel, I realized that many of us aren't aware of the locations and interests of other fans of Tekumel. As large as the Blue Room's subscriber list is, I know and interact with but a handful of them. That said, I'd like to put together a directory, if you will, of gamers who are interested in Tekumel. I'll be administering the list and will not release it in any form to anyone that I don't think serves the purpose of promoting Tekumel. I'd like anyone who wants to be included to send me 1) Their name 2) Postal and e-mail address (phone number if you wish) 3) Areas of interest in Tekumel 4) Anything else that you think is relevant (do you have an active campaign? Want to start one? Run miniature battles, etc.) 5) Do you have a webpage? What's the URL? That's it. Please consider letting your friends and associates who are interested in Tekumel know about this project. As has been rightly pointed out already, there are many Tekumel fans not connected to the Web or even Usenet. They can only be reached by word of mouth. Thanks, James ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //859 [Moderator's Note: Professor Barker answers a question about Shuqu, a ] [ creation of Bob Dushay's for summoning (non-magically) a ] [ person you would like to speak with. ] >Gayan hiTessuken, a friend of mine from the White Crystal Clan of Jakalla, >tells me of a custom of having small chlen-hide plaques, similar to Meshqu, >to notify somebody that you wish to see them. These plaques are called >"Shuqu", and are simpler than Meshqu in that they denote who wants to see >you, and whether the occasion is relatively formal or informal. They are >useful in the palaces, when superiors wish to summon subordinates, or in >some clan houses, where the clan head wishes to see somebody. I am >wondering how widespread this custom is, or if Gayan is checking to see how >tall a story he can get away with before this foreigner understands he is >being teased. "Invitations" to parties, weddings, etc. are usually calligraphed on smallish squares of parchment. They are done in colours and gold ink, using the inviter's clan symbol, a line or two of honorifics, and pretty script. If a superior wants to see an inferior, a clanmaster wants to see a clan-brother/sister, etc., the request is usually penned in black on a rectangle of Hruchan-reed paper. This is delivered by a servant. The plaques Gayan must be referring to are an innovation in Jakalla; they are unknown in the north and west. In the east -- Fasiltum, particularly -- commands/invitatons are often simply the clan symbol of the inviter written on a bit of coloured parchment. In Thraya and Jaikalor, a small glass square is sent, inside of which is the clan-symbol of the sender. These are customarily returned to the sender (or rather to his/her servant) when the invitee shows up for the meeting. Some of these symbols are quite beautiful, made of silver, gold, stained glass (in Sokatis), etc. I never saw a Tsolyani" calling card." The society demands that a visitor leave word verbally with a servant. Thus, if I call uninvited at your clanhouse, the clan's door-guard or chamberlain will inquire my business. I then tell him that I have come to see (e.g.) Gayan; he replies formally with regret that Gayan is not present; I then request him to inform Gayan that I had come to visit, and take my leave. If I have a longer message to impart, I can leave a note or letter; see below. >I also wonder if Tsolyani have any equivalent of the Victorian gentleman's >calling cards, where you left them at a friend's house when you come to >call. I believe you bent a corner of the card down when a return visit was >not expected. Surely the Tsolyani have a similar system? Not really. So much is done by servants and face-to-face communication for reasons of "dignity, nobility, and honour." All of the objectives in your last paragraph are met by a personal visit and a few polite words to the servants/clan-chamberlains. If you have something longer to communicate, pen and parchment -- and in the higher houses, formally trained scribes with a palette of coloured inks and paints -- are available so that you can write a note. If you do not wish to come yourself, you can always pen a note and have it delivered by a servant -- saves going out in the midday sun! Regards, Phil ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //860 [Moderator's Note: Peter Huston asks about the arrangement of eyes on the ] [ 3-eyed creatures of Tekueml. ] >I have a question for the professor which I am hoping he can answer. >Why do Hlaka and the related species have 3 eyes? >I mean what is the evolutionary advantage? >Do they all function? >Do they all see the same sort of spectrum? Three-eyed species are apparently common in the Hlaka's home regions of space. There is no real "reason," any more than why humans should have five digits on each hand/foot instead of four or six. The Hlaka themselves claim that their vision is sharper than any human's, and they sometimes play a game which involves seeing and successfully identifying very small objects at great distances. This may or may not be due to the three-eye feature. Yes, these eyes are functional. They do not operate independently from one another, however, but work together, as a human's two eyes do. As far as I know, they all see the same spectrum. Regards, Phil ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //861 [Moderator's Note: Joe Saul comments on the casual Tekumel subject. Your ] [ idea sounds like a godd one, though. ] > Has anyone ever come up with a casual Tekumel game? Well, I've got a great idea for a Tekumel card game -- "Kolumejalim: War for the Petal Throne," about the recent civil war. Could even work as a CCG, but the market isn't there for CCGs at the moment. If there's enough interest, maybe I'll do it up in a Cheapass Games-like format (photocopied, no illos). It's not a high-priority project, though. > [Moderator's Note: I don't know if you would call it casual, but we used ] > [ to have what we called spell wars. Two extremely pow-] Congratulations! You've just re-invented "War of Wizards!" ;-) [Moderator's Note: Well, we modified it. WoW had counters, map sheets, a ] [ rules book, etc. We played spell wars with no paper, no] [ counters, not even a spell list, just 3 people ] [ (minimally) and our imaginations. ] Joe //862 [Moderator's Note: I have wrapped up numerous responses on the Food of the ] [ Ssu into this one message. Edward Bornstein, Professor ] [ Barker (to two different sets of questions, and Joe Saul] [ all comment to one of the questions raised in the series] [ of Food of the Ssu question. ] Edward writes... Regarding the so-called 'Food of the Ssu', all of you are neglecting an important aspect. I have it on excellent authority [1] that a major, if not almost exclusive, part of the diet of the Ssu is the flesh of naughty children. Throughout the Five Empires, disobedient, defiant, and otherwise ignoble children are carried away in the night and never seen again. Kasi Meshqu :-)} [1] if you can't trust your clanmothers, who can you trust? -- Professor Barker writes... The Food of the Ssu is indeed used by the assassin clans, as well as by others Joe names below. I don't recall clearly, but my impression is that the toxin is strongly alkali, but with unknown ingredients that render it truly lethal. There are several "species" of this stuff, and all do not act quite the same. Moderator's Note: Joe Saul writes on the Food of the Ssu. ] > >>The Ssu are considered horrid and unclean by most humans, and this would >>preclude followers of Chiteng and Hrihayal from making use of the stuff. >>The Tsolyani deities consider their practices to be "noble"; it would be >>very "ignoble" to rub somebody's face in the Food of the Ssu! > >If I remember correctly, though, Food of the Ssu is listed as a toxin usable >in assassination attempts. Will the assassin clans use it, or is that >restricted to people operating completely outside civilized rules (e.g. >Pariah Deity worshippers, Haida Pakalani) or inimical nonhumans? > >[Moderator's Note: As I remember it, a Sarku (was it a soldier or priest?) ] >[ pushed someone into a Food of the Ssu plant in MoG. Or ] >[ is my memory failing???? My guess is that there are ] >[ those who would use it. ] >Joe There are. Just as there are people on this planet who would cheerfully use Anthrax if they could devise and build a delivery system. In "Man of Gold" the victim was more or less accidentally pushed off a Sakbe road into a patch of the stuff. It was thus not used as a "weapon." [Moderator's Note: He may have been accidentally pushed off, but according ] [ to what Harsan saw, someone used a staff or spear to push] [ the person's face into the plant, thus assuring that he ] [ would die. (See Joe's comment below.) ] Regards, Phil -- Professor Barker further states... >>[Moderator's Note: So why did the Priests of Ksarul develop the Food of Ssu] >>[ temple spell? Was it simply because it is a good offen-] >>[ sive and defensive spell? The plants are particularly ] >>[ good weapons, since they are highly toxic and have a ] >>[ high fear value. They also end up going away at the end] >>[ of the duration, so they won't stay and cause long term ] >>[ problems. I would imagine that any substance removed/ ] >>[ collected from the plant would disappear at the duration] >>[ of the spell, too. Just wondering. ] The scholar-priests of Ksarul have connections with some very unpleasant secret societies and social strata. They developed the spell in order to create fear and loathing in their opponents, just like the invention and use of poison gas here on Terra. They use this weapon more as a threat than as a reality, although it does serve well to deter opponents in the Underworlds. The usual form of this spell does have a danger, however: if it is used in a space too small to hold all of the created "food," it rolls backward upon the sender. Other known varieties do not do this. Some, moreover do not create the same species of the "food" as the others. The assassin clans and the inner membership of the Ndalu Clan keep these dark secrets on pain of death. The "food" is also very useful in distracting parties of Ssu. Some will stop to "brunch" and stop chasing human foes. [Moderator's Note: Hmm, I have never thought that it would work that way ] [ before. Interesting to be on the run from a pack of ] [ Ssu, and ploop! There's a picnic. I would think that] [ they wouldn't go for it. But it is an interesting ] [ idea. ] The spell creates the "food." It does not open a dimensional door to any planet where the stuff exists -- this would probably pull in all sorts of unwanted stuff (e.g. soil, rocks, other vegetation -- an ocean?). The creation is done by the same moulding of energy into matter that is used to create human food, beings, and other substances. When the matrix can no longer hold together, the stuff dissipates, except under special circumstances. This is symbolised by the "expiration times" (= "lasts 2 turns," etc.) in the rules. The "disenchant" spells are useful; they get rid of such other-planar substances by creating vibrations that destroy the consistency of the spell matrix. THese "vibrations" are imperceptible to humans and other non-spell-created beings. Regards, Phil -- Joe Saul adds... >[Moderator's Note: As I remember it, a Sarku (was it a soldier or priest?) ] >[ pushed someone into a Food of the Ssu plant in MoG. Or ] >[ is my memory failing???? My guess is that there are ] >[ those who would use it. ] I'd call the guy an intelligence operative. The victim had already jumped off the Sakbe road and landed in a patch of the stuff face down. The agent merely held his face down in the plants with a staff tip at the back of his head. Joe ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //863 [Moderator's Note: Scott Maxwell and Giovanna Fregni respond to the dogs on] [ Tekumel topic. ] Scott Maxwell writes... As a companion to the dog question, I'd surmise that cats would be limited to short, wire hair type cats and sphynx (hairless) type cats. The wire type hair was used in the late 1800s by scientists discussing evolution. It was originally thought that the wire coat was an evolutionary change in the breed for warm weather climates, but it was discovered that the mousers on the ships would change into wire haired cats over the period of a month or two of extremely hot weather. As to the hairless variety (I personally own two of them), hairlessness is a very common mutation among cats and has been kept relatively rare because of the colder climates (among other things). There are three known cases or spontaneous mutation in North America in the past 20 years where the hairless gene has bred fairly true. Then there is at least another spontaneous hairless mutation coming out of Russia. Now these are all I know of right now and it seems strange that there are not herds of hairless cats in india and the Arabian Peninsula, but maybe there are, I don't know. Anyhow, The inclusion of hairless cats might make a tie in to the Mihalli. Maybe the "myth" of the Mihalli might be explained as an anthropomorphized sphynx type cat. Maybe the Tekumeli equivelent of Puss-n-boots was a sphynx. I'm just brainstorming now, but the inclusion of sphynx type cats on Tekumel (even if they were hunted down as "unclean" or whatever) could be used by scholars to many ends. -- Giovanna Fregni writes... I thought I'd throw in a couple of comments here. Having my bestiary at hand, I thought I could make some suggestions. >The Terrier group is represented by an Airedale analogue. That's a scary thought. Phil had a crazed Airedale until he passed away a couple years ago. I don't know that Phil would immortalize Cyrus on Tekumel as sane working type dog. Of course, that is up to Phil. How about the good old black lab? (Phil owned one of those, too). I don't know if the long fur theory would hold up, since hma and hmelu and other animals do have longer coats. It is interesting to look at the various art renderings of Renyu. I used a German Shepherd as my 'model'. Other artists have leaned toward other breeds. I would think that over time, dog breeds intermixed and and the resulting mongrel would tend to look like the generic shepherd/collie mix, or something on the order of the dingo. I doubt that we'd see any really identifiable AKC type breeds, simply because pedigreed dogs today are bred for conformation rather than health or longevity. Anyone who's owned a larger dog knows about the problems of displasia, especially in dogs that are pedigreed. I recall one party member had something on the order of a yappy little lap dog, so there would be small pet dogs. But for the most part dogs would be working animals, probably bred indescriminantly as far as looks go. It might be a good idea to see what dogs generally look like in countries like India or in South America where there is little pressure to have a specific breed. >I have >no idea of what the dogs are called on Tekumel . Any body know what the >breeds are called and common names for pets on Tekumel? Dogs are Tle'kku. Cats are Tiu'ni. There's also a six legged wild dog type animal called a Hyahyu'u. OK, it's dog-like if you ignore the extra legs, third eye, bat-like ears and spines... >Do ferrets exist on Tekumel? Are they used in this manner? Is it common? There is a ferret type animal, the Kite' (AKA, the Little Whirlwind). It is six legged with a beaky face and bushy tail. I don't know if any have ever been domesticated, they're supposed to be pretty feisty. >Does anybody know just how smart a Kuni bird is? Kuni birds have limited intelligence compared to humans, but are far and away more intelligent than Terran birds. Probably less intelligent than a Hlaka, they can be trained to speak intelligently but with a limited vocabulary. According to the Bestiary, they can be used for reconnaissance work. >You think this letter is boring? Just wait for my letter where I file >the serial numbers off of Traditional Chinese Medicine and make it the >Tekumel Healthcare System!! OK, as amateur herbalist, and having some familiarity with Traditional Chinese Medicine, you're on. Giovanna Fregni ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //864 [Moderator's Note: Joe Saul adds his comments on the Reality of Tekumel ] [ thread. ] Bear with me; there's a point here, and it's an important one. As an undergraduate, I studied cellular and molecular biology. I am trained as, among other things, a research scientist. I believe in, and understand how to apply, what is commonly called the "scientific method." I have also studied Northern Shaolin Kung Fu. In that context, I have learned about "Chi," how it flows, and how to "project" it (not in the sense of the "hitting people ten feet away from you" stuff, but how to impact upon someone with maximum force). Nothing in my scientific experience remotely justifies or explains "chi." But only a fool would reject something that *works*. So I accepted that, whether chi exists as a mystical flow of energy or not, it's a damn good way of thinking about use of your body in the martial arts, and you can benefit from accepting the concept and working with it. (And for all I know it really *does* exist and we just haven't explained it yet. Acupuncture, after all, has been shown to work on *animals*...) Whether Prof. Barker and others actually channel Tekumel information from another plane, or they just use that as a metaphor for letting the Tekumel- handling part of their subconscious do its job, the results are the same: a beautifully elaborate, remarkably consistent, world that we all enjoy. I see no reason why we should be arguing about it, and less reason why we should be criticizing each other over it. [Moderator's Note: I don't think they were criticizing, just expressing a ] [ healthy skepticism. But, I am sure it could be inter- ] [ preted that way. In any case, I am not sure that is ] [ what the writers were trying to convey. I think Joe is] [ right on this, enjoy it no matter how it comes to us. ] Accept it (as fact or metaphor), work with it, and enjoy Tekumel. All else is silliness. Joe Saul ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //865 [Moderator's Note: Multiple responses about Cows on Tekumel get summarized in] [ this message. Peter Huston, Professor Barker, Peter Huston writes. The cows are mentioned in EPT p. 54 top of the second column. [Moderator's Note: I found the line. What it says is that the descendent of ] [ the cow came to Tekumel. Who's to say what genetic engin-] [ eering and tens of thousands of years have done to the ] [ present day cow? ] Try the zoo in Avanthar, huh? ya know, and I think it's closed, there used to be this really neat little zoo in NYC's Central Park where city children could go and look at the different farm animals. Surely, this cannot be coincidential. What is it? a nexus point, pocket universe, literary borrowing? C'mon fess up. [Moderator's Note: See the note from Professor Barker below. Would this ] [ face, er keyboard lie to you??? ;) ] Peter Huston -- Professor Barker writes. [Moderator's Note: Peter Huston writes about Cows on Tekumel. ] >Did I ask this before or not? Another discrepancy which has always irked me >is EPT says there are cows on Tekumel. The Sourcebook says definitely not. Discrepancies should not "irk" a noble and kindly person. They should be forgiven as being part and parcel of the human condition. >Pete Huston > >(Too tired to make a clever pun about Mooooooooo! "ugalavya!) > >[Moderator's Note: I just gave a very cursory glance to the EPT book and I] >[ couldn't find a reference to cows. I don't have the ] >[ book in electronic form , so I can't scan for it. You ] >[ are correct in that the Sourcebook says no cows or pigs] >[ were brought to Tekmuel. However, there is always an ] >[ exception. The Imperial Zoological collection (located] >[ in Avanthar--right Phil?) has numerous beasts that were] >[ never really brought to Tekumel. It has a horse or 2 ] >[ as I remember, and could have a cow and/or a pig. ] >-- The Imperial zoo in Avanthar had two Bazhaq -- they had a pair, but the female died. There is a female calf, however. These were brought back from Tane. There is also a pair of wild horses there, but both are stallions. They were brought back by an unnamed expedition far into the western oceans -- way out beyond Tane. Nobody has ever thought of a use for these mettlesome animals. I think there is a cow there, too, although my memory is not of much use any more. The cow's milk is not considered as good as thicker, creamier Hmelu milk. A few Imperial nobles have taken to acquiring small vials of this milk to use in magical potions, aphrodisiacs, and the like. The Chancery has expressly forbidden any Pygmy Folk who carry steak knives... Some of you will recall that once a lady D-n-D player insisted on transporting a dragon and a hobbit over to Tekumel. After many objections, I finally gave in. These creatures became a nine-day wonder. Both were exhibited in the zoo of the Governor of Jakalla. I think the hobbit eventually died of loneliness, but the dragon might still be alive. [Moderator's Note: I remember that you had mentioned to me that there was a] [ hobbit on Tekumel on display in the Zoo at Jakalla. I ] [ guess he has now been moved to a Museum... ] Regards, Phil ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //866 [Moderator's Note: Joe Hoopman responds about the food of the Ssu. ] The Food of the Ssu incident did happen in Man of Gold, but it was more of an opportunistic use than a carefully thought-out plan. I don't have my copy of MoG at work with me, so I can't give all of the details, but as I recall, one of the (Yan Koryani?) agents sent to accompany Harsan from Bey Su jumped from the Sakbe road in an attempt to escape the Worm Lord's agents and had the misfortune to land in a patch of the stuff. Then, someone took a wooden pole and, rather than trying to get him out of the patch, shoved his face squarely in. (In fact, although I'd have to check the book again to be sure, I'm pretty sure that it was a fellow Yan Koryani who wielded the pole, presumably to make sure that the one who jumped couldn't answer any inconvenient questions.) (And given that the man killed by the Food of the Ssu was subsequently impaled, it doesn't look like there were any really great threads left in his Skein at that point . . .) (Yes, I did just reread the novels. They're on the short list of books I reread frequently and actively recommend to as many people as possible.) Joe Hoopman ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //867 [Moderator's Note: Robert Goldman adds to the Dogs on Tekumel thread. ] I enjoyed reading Mike Wayne's speculations on dogs on Tekumel, but I tend to think that Mike's being too conservative. Dog breeds have changed radically even in the very short time between the present day and medieval Europe. This period of time is infinitesimal when compared with the time distance between the present day and the "present day" in Tekumel. I would bet on wildly different breeds. Especially when one takes into account the genetic sophistication that was enough to bring synthetic humanoids (e.g., Qol) into existence... Think what kind of herding dog it would take to protect Hma from Hyahyu'u! Or even *begin* to nudge Chlen into the right direction! Cheers, Robert ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //868 [Moderator's Note: Rogher McCarthy wants to know more about the lands to the] [ west, and has some ideas about Chlen hide weapons. ] Couple of things that came up after several weeks spent absorbing the Sourcebook and S&G volume 2: I'm quite interested in the new lands in the west that popped into existence when the Gardasiyal map was released: 1) The Naqsai down in the SW are IIRC mentioned as trading with the Chima in the Bestiary - can the professor tell us any more about them ? 2) The Sourcebook also has a tantalising mention of the land of Tane somewhere off the west end of the map - has anyone got any more information on them ? 3) As a more general question while in some ways it's kinda cool for us to actually not know very much more about the rest of off-map Tekumel than any well-informed Tsolyani scholar would, presumably the professor and the best-travelled of his players must have something resembling a full-world map - has the professor any plans for this sort of information to be released in the foreseeable future ? My final question is about Chlen-hide weapons - given that they are much lighter than iron or bronze weapons shouldn't they do much less damage ? Maybe there's a medieval combat recreationist out there who can support or disprove this point but given that a melee weapon is supposed to deliver the maximum amount of kinetic force at the point of impact surely the weight of the weapon itself must be a significant factor ( I really can't believe that hitting somebody with the equivalent of a plastic sword can possibly do as much damage as hitting them with an identically shaped metal one ?) Again an archer might be able to answer this but would a chlen-tipped arrow, quarrel or javelin have different range and other flight characteristics to a metal-tipped one as well as doing different levels of damage ? If this is true, then it could offer an explanation for the fantastic designs of most Tekumelani bladed weapons - while these would be impractical and regarded as a scandalous waste of good metal on earth, a chlen-hide blade can actually use more square inches of material while still weighing only half as much as a sensibly-shaped Terran metal broadsword AND if it is still going to cause less damage however you design it, then you would expect fighting styles to develop which aim to use hooked and serrated weapons to disarm, wound and capture rather than kill enemies (which is going to be quite difficult if they're armoured anyway). The closest analogy would of course be with Aztec and Mayan warfare where the primary aims were to display one's skill and bravery and to subdue and capture enemy warriors for sacrifice - so that even quite formidable-looking weapons of wood, stone and obsidian ended up doing limited damage to relatively lightly armoured and armed Spaniards who fought to kill. Quite apart from rulesy questions about what damage chlen-hide weapons should do compared to bronze and steel equivalents and whether someone only trained to use chlen-hide weapons should have a negative modifier when employing a much heavier metal one (particularly if for aesthetic reasons your metal sword is designed to look and be used just like the chlen-hide ones) this has some interesting consequences - for a start the great majority of battle casualties must be disarmed and lightly wounded prisoners rather than dead or severely wounded. This raises logistical problems - yes you can probably use many of your prisoners as porters after a battle and sell or sacrifice them at the end of a campaign but you'll still have to guard and feed them for the duration. Running away must also be considerably easier for someone dressed in the equivalent of plastic armour - particularly if there's no mounted enemy cavalry to pursue and round you up (and in most circumstances someone running for his life and liberty is going to outrun an equally fatigued pursuer who has to hang on to his own weapons and shield and only has honour and perhaps greed to spur him on). Given the formalised and ritual nature of Tekumelani warfare would ransoming and exchanging prisoners not be a more sensible option in most situations ? (particularly after a qadarni-battle) - as both the Germans and Russians discovered in the last world war getting a reputation for systematically killing or enslaving your prisoners only encourages the enemy to fight to the last ditch and the last bullet. And if so, what sort of conventions and laws of war exist about POWs and ransom ? Is surrender or running away regarded as the more ignoble act ? and what happens in a duel or ritual battle if one is disarmed - are you allowed to rearm and fight on ? etc All of which brings home to me again just what a weird and wonderful world Tekumel is and how we need to completely rethink all the Fantasy RPGing conventions when venturing there.... ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //869 [Moderator's Note: Gavin Reid describes the casual way his group(s) enjoy ] [ Tekumel. ] I think the way that we played Tekumel (currently in abeyance due to child pressures) was probably pretty beer and pretzels. EPT was the first RPG I ever played, back in 1975 and certain things made a great impression: 1) My first GM made sure we did not see the book (apart from the odd picture) so there was a real sense of mystery and the unknown and a huge world to explore. [Moderator's Note: Gavin, when I first started playing RPGs, our GM did the] [ same thing. We didn't even roll our own dice. Every- ] [ thing was a mystery to us. It was quite fun. ] 2) The names of animals, the Gods etc had such a strong flavour that they created a really intense fantasy atmosphere. Our group then moved onto D&D which was interesting but far too rules bound and limited (I am also a wargamer so I am quite happy with rules but in the right place and in my view they were irrelevant to good fantasy gaming) so I started to GM a different group assembled to play Petal including a few other D&D rebels. After one successful experience we always held the games in a pub lubricated with lots of beer (no pretzels). The aim, which was pretty successful with a very mixed group (many with no other gaming experience), was to maximise flavour and atmosphere and keep it fun. No one except me saw the book, and the map was fairly secret. The box cover and pictures were the main stimulants to imagination (apart from the beer). We always played foreigners who always knew their place at the bottom of the Tsolyani pile - quite literally in the average Jakalla flop house. The next EPT artefact was the infamous Book of Ebon Bindings, which had a serious effect on play - we found the strange twists of the Professor's imagination and his beautiful turns of phrase hugely conducive to evocative play, The Scythe of Flame and the Lord of the Legions of the Despairing Dead being two favourites. Making the party or members thereof chant out the supplications to Ruutlanesh in a crowded pub had a particularly gratifying effect. (In passing I should confess we also tried D&D again inspired by the original City State of the Invincible Overlord. By deleting the magic system, the combat system and every other system except character generation, by creating a suite of gods along the lines of Tekumel's - I have to confess I purloined Ssrykarum and made him a God of Blood Boltered Battle - and by moving the action outdoors in a semi-coherent mediaeval society it turned into an excellent game.) Combined with the Swords & Glory Volumes 1 & 2 from GS it helped to develop a "mythic" style of play where the aim was to use the maps, the names and the hints of mysteries and strange places to wrap them into a legend rather than to indulge in the niceties of Tsolyani society. Key features were: Players remained foreigners so they were bottom of the social heap at all times and were always pawns of greater forces, ranging from Gods to the Tsolyani officer who conscripted them into a moat filling Tsurum. This led to a certain loathing of the arrogant Tsolyani which was only mitigated when they fought the Fascists (I think an accurate use of the term) of Muugalavya or were used by the devious Livyani Various devices were then used to make this worth playing and put them into the most interesting parts of Tekumel, like making them part of the working out of an ancient Poem of Destiny, putting them through demonic gates etc. Their actions would often have significant effects (like causing the fall of Khirgar, which delighted them in view of their treatment by the Tsolyani) but without it being their aim. Player aims varied - for example the main aim of one was to learn more of the Lament to the Wheel of Black, which was granted as he helped to work out a Qonic Poem of Destiny. Players never saw sourcebooks or rules (though they did read Man of Gold and Flamesong); I was the only EPT GM (I played in our {d&d} games) so knowledge could not carry over from GM to player. The effects of spells had to be worked out by trial and error since only the name was known (ie the Affable Blight of Lord Uni); each mission or session would normally start with a "Rumourpak" - a collection of assorted facts, mostly collected from the Sourcebook, plus a few things relevant to the mission at hand. Some would be serious ie "Metlunel III, Seal Emperor 1407-58 was known, for reasons unknown, as "He Who Thirsts", which was the key to the whole mission, others less so such as The Priestly Party are incensed following the public consumption, yet again, of priestesses of the Blue Goddess by Ahoggya from the Legion of Guruggma while passing through Bey Sy." Though we moved out of the pub into houses as we got older and more job bound we always tried to keep the sessions convivial, and did not accept players plotting against each other. We found one or two players would hog the GM's time and the atmosphere would sour. The net effect of all this was that I did have to work pretty hard, know as much about Tekumel as possible and try to create a coherent legend-like story line based on my vision of the Prof's world. Clearly it was not "realistic" Tekumel but I think it captured a lot of the feeling of Tekumel. The players could absorb the story, soak up the world and contribute hugely to a "fun" experience without fussing about rules or trying to dominate the game background to inflate their egos. We found that when it worked well, which it did most of the time, it made for very memorable gaming. ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //870 [Moderator's Note: Bob Alberti offers up some info on the topic of the ] [ placement of Hlaka eyes. Hey everyone, there tons more ] [ stuff, and I will have vacation starting Dec/12/98 and ] [ won't return to work until Jan/4/99. So I will be put- ] [ stuff out hot and heavy over the vacation. ] >Why do Hlaka and the related species have 3 eyes? >I mean what is the evolutionary advantage? >Do they all function? >Do they all see the same sort of spectrum? I thought the answer to this one was obvious: an airborne species is would have an advantage by having true 3D trinocular vision rather than our flat-plane binocular vision. The triangular arrangement of Hlaka eyes means that they can see, process, and navigate in X, Y and Z-axes better than any human ever could. ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable.