These messages are the accumulation of the messages that were sent out on the Blue Room email list between May 1995 and June 2000. A large portion of the information is directly from Professor M.A.R Barker. When the list members joined during the time the list was active, they agreed to refrain from sharing this data with non list members. When the list ended, it was urged that the data be made available to non-list Tekumel fans, and it seemed like a good idea all around. I only ask that if you download these digests, or have received them in some other way, please respect the agreements the list members made, and refrain from passing them around and instead point people to the Tekumel web site, www.tekumel.com so that they can download them for themselves, and see all the other material available on the Tekumel.com web site. Many Thanks. Chris Davis Moderator: Blue Room mailing list Creative Commons - Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs CC BY-NC-ND BLUE ROOM ARCHIVE -- VOLUME 10 271: Coming of Age and Naming Ceremonies 272: London Campaign Notes, Part 6 273: More on the Temple of Sarku 274: More Mitlanyal Responses 275: More on Coming of Age and Naming Ceremonies 276: Deity and Clan Symbols 277: Kraa Hills Naming Ceremonies 278: London Campaign Notes, Part 7 279: A View of Livyanu and its History 280: Tekumelani Fonts and the Council of Priesthoods 281: Tekumel PBEM starting 282: Status in Tsolyanu 283: More on Livyanu and Dlash 284: Our Tekumel Campaigns 285: Our Campaigns Response 286: Possible get together at GenCon 287: More Status in Tsolyanu 288: Questions: Archery, Barracks, Baths, Nonhumans and Plays 289: More Questions: Covering Numerous Topics 290: More Campaigns Response 291: Numerous Short Topic Messages 292: Campaign Time Setting 293: Priestly Circles and The Lament to the Wheel of Black 294: More Archery Questions 295: Upcoming New Release Netbook 296: Clan Nobility and Leaders 297: Campaign Time Setting Reply 298: More Livyani Names 299: Heresy on Tekumel 300: Short Responses NOTE: I corrected Message #289 per Professor Barker's followup in Message #289b, so people who do a word search won't get the inaccurate information. I don't normally edit posts before archiving, except occasionally to correct typos in message titles, but this seemed reasonable. -- JMS ************************************* //271 [Moderator's Note: Lisa Leutheuser asks about coming of age and Tekumelani ] [ naming ceremonies. ] [******Important Note****** Power will be down to the building that houses ] [ my office on Saturday, from 5:00 AM to 5:00 PM ] [ CST, to connect a new generator for the computer] [ room. Our internet router and all servers will ] [ be powered down during that time. ] >There was recent mention in the "London" journals about a PCs >son's name-choosing ceremony/party. (is there a specific name >for this? I can't recall off hand.) >My questions are: >o at what age does this occur? (my guess is 14 or 15ish) >o is there a specific ceremony for this? or is this just an excuse > for a party? Child naming: Child-naming ceremonies are usually performed at puberty or slightly thereafter, differing from place to place only by a few months. These do vary from temple to temple, clan to clan, place to place, and period to period, however. At the moment, in Jakalla, most clans hold "coming out" parties for their young sprouts, with food, wine, and entertainment. The "centrepiece" receives good wishes and small gifts from relatives and friends, and a priest of the person's faith may be asked to offer prayers and a small sacrifice (a lock of the candidate's hair on a flame altar for Vimuhla, a bit of bread and a morsel of meat from the feast for certain other temples -- etc.). An elder chosen by the candidate, the parents, senior clansmen, or all of the above than reads the new name from a scroll, and this is then ceremonially taken to the clan's record room and inserted into the clan's membership records. In other cities, there are slightly differing ceremonies. There are even survivals of "puberty tests" in the temples of Avanthe, Dlamelish, and their Cohorts in some locales, with girls being ceremonially deflowered on an altar while parents, friends, and the priesthood fondly watch and applaud. Boys may be given a willing and experienced slavegirl similarly. Vimuhla and Karakan both have scarier rituals, particularly in Khirgar and the north, where long quests into the desert, ceremonial "duels" (which the candidate always wins -- but may be lightly scarred), etc. are common. You don't need to ask about Sarku and Durritlamish... >o I remember a reference that went something like "19th form may be > required." Is a high-level form of dress generally required for > this ceremony/party for people in high and very high status clans? The "24 Forms" of ceremonial dress are used whenever there is a formal party, with specific Forms being worn for specific types of parties. The 9th Form is used for family and clan celebrations. The 19th Form would be "de rigeur" only for VERY high clan, VERY wealthy, and VERY ultra-snobbish and fashion-conscious aristocrats! >o does the age and/or ceremony customs vary in different clans/lineages? Very much so. See above. >o does the Tlakotani clan do this differently? (they seem to do so many > other things differently than everyone else. :) Yes. The Tlakotani -- even rural "farmer" clansmen -- honour the God-Emperor more than others. A symbol of the Seal is set up in a large hall, an open field, etc., and the candidate and his/her friends of about the same age all join in singing the rituals of homage to the Emperor. Then they jump over a low bonfire or brazier of coals, and pass through a representation of the "Jade Arch" made of coloured paper. The name is officially given, and a representative of the Omnipotent Azure Legion (a fellow-Tlakotani, in most cases) is called upon to "deliver the name to Avanthar." This may or may not be done in reality. In cases of VERY high and VERY wealthy Tlakotani -- those nearest the Imperial sub-lineage, Avanthar may even send a member of the Omnipotent Azure Legion with a gift of a gold coin, a gilded scroll with the candidate's name inscribed and illuminated with colours, and a little cake of Imperial incense (that used in the Hall of the Petal Throne itself). If the child is heir to lands or estates, their title deeds and documents are displayed in the feast-room, along with hereditary possessions (weapons, armour, Kaing-standards, etc.). >The reason I care is that I'm doing a diary for my character to help >me understand her and the culture better, as well as to give the GM >(Joe Saul) more rope to hang me with. :-/ So I would like to accurately >place and describe the entries concerning this time of her life. Tell Joe to be nice to you. Otherwise the Omnipotent Azure Legion may come calling ... >I know in the North a woman's children belong to her clan, and in the >South, they are of the father's clan. What about the children of an >unmarried aridani woman in the South? Those of married aridani women? These matters are the subject of negotiation. If the woman is important to her clan or to her temple, she may insist on the children being members of her own clan. If the father is an unknown (a slave, a humble guardsman, a fellow clansman, etc.), the child will probably be left to her without dispute -- unless she doesn't want it at all, and in that case, the child may end up a "poor relation" clan-member, working in one of the clan's crafts or businesses. If the father is better known or more important, the children may be put into his clan. A particularly handsome child (male or female) may also be handed over to one of the parents' temples as a ward, to be educated and brought up as a priest or priestess. These and similar questions often come before the courts of the Palace of the Realm since clans and individuals may disagree. Hope this helps! Phil ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //272 [Moderator's Note: The latest in the London Diary, Part 6. The Professor ] [ had the following comment on the last chapter. ] The Ice Temple which they visited is far north of Ghaton on the shores of the northern sea. I think it used to be on the old TSR map, but it was too far south, and so we took it off. Interesting that they should be transported there. Phil =============== Part 6 28th Langala Finally off to Salarvya. The ship seems sound enough, and the crew regularly ply the route between Jakalla and Chame'el. 3rd Fesru The weather is unbearably hot. Even the breeze isn't cooling us down. 4th Fesru Fog. The gods know where it came from. The captain can't understand it, and the temperature has dropped. It feels like winter out there. We're almost reduced to huddling together for warmth below decks. 5th Fesru We ran aground on a sandbank. The captain claims that the island isn't known to him. He thinks that we'll be able to float of the sandbank at high tide, but he'll only go out and anchor offshore until the fog drifts. The rest of us have decided to explore the island, and see whether we can find any game for the pot. We found a cave in the side of a hill, and went in. It opened up into a big cavern inside. Jadhak spotted a glyph of Maraggu carved into the wall. We found the place defended by three demon Champions - those of Maraggu, Ku'eth and Hrgash, which we defeated eventually. We managed to find a fair bit of loot, all of which Tlangten wants to keep for himself. 6th Fesru The fog is gone, and there is no sign of the island. We should be in Chame'el in about a week if the weather holds out. 17th Fesru Met the Governor of Chame'el. He wants us to retrieve his brother, dead or alive. And he claims that there is a curse on Dlantla Isle which can only be lifted by the intervention of a foreigner. 30th Fesru We found that the curse was due to some demon or other called the Dead Spirit Lord, who was imprisoning an Aspect of Shiringgayi (don't ask me to explain the theology of it all). We destroyed the dead Spirit Lord, and though several of us appeared to be killed in the battle, the released Aspect of Shiringgayi restored our dead to life through Her beneficence, and granted us each one wish. The others wished for the ability to cast such and such a spell, or some wealth or other such greedy desires. I asked for the gift of fertility, though what that will entail is a mystery to me at the moment. [He was unaware of it before he died, but the apparent effect was that every woman he slept with at the right stage in her cycle became pregnant, whether or not lisutl root was used, and they eventually gave birth to almost identical, exquisitely beautiful daughters, often in multiple births.] 3rd Drenggar We finally found the pirate base and wiped them out. It turned out that the Governor's brother was the leader of the pirates. We killed him, but he came back as a giant and we had difficulty killing him again. I suppose we need to go back via Chame'el and give the Governor the bad news. I hope he takes it well. I have no desire to find myself viewing the inside of a Salarvyani jail, or feel the ministrations of the Salarvyani equivalent of the Company of the Edification of the Soul! -- Viscount Veshtaru hi Chaishyani (Jack Bramah) Legion of the Mighty Heroes of Avanthar Molmitlan Otulengba! ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //273 [Moderator's Note: The Professor responds to Steve's further questions about] [ the Temples of Sarku and Durritlamish. ] Legend >> Professor Barker > Steve Lopez Professor Barker >> The Temples of Sarku and Durritlamish thus treat the Undead as >>"adepts" (revered, holy beings), and do not permit them to rule. >>There is also, apparently, a loss of interest on the part of the >>Undead in temporal power: after all, what good are money, sex, >>physical prowess, property, etc. to the Undead? As long as Sarku's >>religious objectives are achieved, the Undead seem content (if >>that is the right word) to act as mentors, advisors, sages, etc. >>and dwell in the darkened depths of their sect's greatest temples. >Sure, but duplicity and Machiavellian machinations are a way of >life among the upper classes of Tekumel. Why not also a "way of >death"? Is it possible that a long-"lived" (ahem) Jajgi or two >could be "pulling strings" (sight unseen) to influence political >and social events in order *to advance the worship of Sarku or >advance his religious objectives?* (note emphasis). Perhaps the >desire for *personal* power dies when a person becomes undead, but >religious fervor and the desire to advance one's faith may live on. What you say COULD be true. In fact, it EASILY could be true. I just don't have any evidence of it. Sarku and Durritlamish seem rather politically remote from human (i.e. LIVING human) concerns and don't seem to want to convert the masses. I may be wrong. The ones in those temples who do show interest in politics and power are the LIVING senior hierarchy: the high priests and administrators of temple property, temple lands, and temple prerogatives within the Five Empires. >Perhaps a talented Jajgi could be influencing events on Tekumel by >playing powerful living Sarku worshippers like den-den counters. This could indeed be the case. I have no evidence one way or the other. It is VERY hard to detect and identify a really advanced Jajgi, of course, and I somehow don't get the impression that any of the current crop of senior priests and adepts are Undead. >>Most worshippers of the Worm Lord would not want their loved ones >>turned into Mrur under any circumstances. >So what was going on in Chapter 20 of "The Man of Gold" >(particularly the "orgy of death" on page 159)? Was this a standard >Sarku ritual or a "special event" cooked up by Dhich'une? Your >article on Sarku worship seems to suggest the latter (in that only >priests generally get to participate in this kind of "inner circle" >event). By the way, these passages were the most memorable (and >unsettling!) of the entire novel. The sacrifice described in "The Man of Gold" was indeed a "special event." There are wealthy -- living -- patrons of the temple, moreover, who get their jollies by participating in "inner" temple events, sacrifices, rituals, pageants, and the like (rather like the $1,000 a plate dinners the American political parties throw to raise funds from the faithful). The fact that a Prince of the Empire was there to participate meant that this was not just an average Saturday night shindig down at the temple! The participants were not only priests, as just mentioned, but also devotees and wealthy adherents who occasionally need a little jollying along to keep them happy and interested. >>Emperor Dhich'une is ASSUMED by many to be a Jajgi. >Two questions here; one concrete, the other hypothetical. >If Dhich'une is in fact undead, would this be detectable by magic? It would be, except that anybody with the power to turn an Imperial Prince into a Jajgi would likely possess the power to conceal this fact from others. The temples all have very powerful and experienced sorcerers, and a low-level Detect Magic type of spell would see nothing except a living human being. I suspect that it would take something very big indeed to "see through" the disguise! It is more likely, as I think I said someplace, that Dhich'une has received one of the Aspects -- visual and personal identity -- of his dread god. This is one of the last and greatest benefits of devotion and worship: the deity grants you an "Aspect." You then take on certain visible characteristics of the god and have a few very advanced powers (though not to the limit of "godlike"). >Now for the hypothetical part, which assumes the answer to the last >question is "yes". Since Dhich'une has left the Golden Tower at >least once (that we know of), would it be possible for an sorcerous >agent of one of the other heirs to get close enough to him to make >the determination of whether or not he's undead? (There must be >spies in Avanthar -- the last time Dhich'une "wasn't home", one of >the heirs had advance notice). Or is he jumping in a tubeway car >beneath Avanthar and zipping straight to the City of Sarku, with no >chance for a palace insider to get near enough to him? (And what >would the range on such a spell be, anyway?). What you suggest is THEORETICALLY possible, of course. It is unlikely since Dhich'une would take great pains not to allow a spy of that quality to roam about Tsolyanu without being watched. He can't really have them killed since this would breach the Concordat and make for political assassinations back and forth that would rock the fabric of the Empire. But no senior sorcerer can "disappear" or "wander off on his own" for any length of time, and getting near Dhich'une on one of his little forays to the City of Sarku or elsewhere would be most difficult and unlikely. Dhich'une's agents are watching just about everybody and everywhere. Assuming an agent DID get through, he/she/it would have to have wizardly talents that would be just immense in order to penetrate Dhich'une's disguise (if one can call it that). There aren't that many super-high wizards running around loose in Tsolyanu in any case, and those that do exist would find such an adventure far too dangerous and unproductive. Did James Bond ever sneak into the Kremlin and assassinate the Russian Premier? Not even when such an event might have been assumed to be beneficial to the Western cause! Again, suppose you do get in and reveal Dhich'une's status as a Jajgi: who will care -- or dare to care -- if and when you get back to tell people? The general populace has no real power, any more than Americans do over the question of who killed President Kennedy. The great clans and other temples would use the information as political propaganda, but they're already passing gossip like that around, and all it does is confirm the already-convinced in their beliefs. There is no court or tribunal that would dare to confront Dhich'une and accuse him of being unfit for the Petal Throne. The only such "court" is an open civil war, and that is already in progress. I don't believe it is feasible, and if it could and did happen, what use would it be to tear off Dhich'une's disguise? He would simply have the whistle-blower(s) "offed" and declare them traitors and liars who were out to destroy the power of the Throne. I hope Churak has the good sense not to get himself embroiled in what might be a quick two-step to the impaling stake! Regards, Phil ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //274 [Moderator's Note: David Cheng adds the following to the Mitlanyal ] [ discussion. ] Two cents from David Cheng: TOME has gone on record saying that _Mitlanyal_ is the only product they're interested in producing, and that they might end their Tekumel efforts if it doesn't sell well. To this effect, I ask that Bob Alberti give them something to work with! I am personally bewildered that the scope of the project has grown to the extent that Bob professes it has. How about providing a decent 64/(96?) page book on the Tsolyani Twenty? Leave the other empires, barbaric peoples, Shadow gods, etc., to Book Two, to be produced when it's done? I am a big proponent of getting product on the game store shelves, to at least slow the rate that interest in Tekumel/EPT/S&G/Gardasiyal is eroding. If that means making Mitlanyal a two-volume effort, then so be it. [Moderator's Note: I understand your point David... But I'll add my 2 ] [ cents, too. I would rather see it one, complete vol- ] [ ume. I wouldn't want a shortened version to generate ] [ complaints, such as not having enough material to be ] [ considered a worthwile investment. :( ] -DC ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //275 [Moderator's Note: Lisa follows up with some more questions dealing with ] [ growing up on Tekumel. ] >When is puberty? I haven't been able to find any source that >gives the average age. I ask only because I would think the >average age of puberty might be affected by external factors >(such as diet) and possibly by any evolution that has occured. So now I am to be an expert on puberty? Damfino. I think it occurs on the average in hot climates (e.g. India) by age 13 for girls and perhaps 14 for boys. I'd say this is a logical average, although there are exceptions in both directions. If I am wrong, would some medical doctor in the audience please stand up and give me the straight facts, please? >Phil also said: >> ...and a priest of the person's faith may be asked to offer prayers >> and a small sacrifice >So by the time most people reach puberty, they've already choosen >their faith? Most people have their faith chosen FOR them by their clans, parents, elders, etc. Same as here. Some of my Christian classmates here were already having church confirmations by about age 12, as I recall. Very few people really sit down and choose their own religion, here or on Tekumel. Most get it from their elders and just tend to drift along with the herd. A few (like your obedient servant) get cranky and insist on actually reading the texts and discussing the doctrines. Still fewer (again, like your obt. svt.) actually revolt and leave the faith of their elders for some other. Here, most such "questioners" seem to end up as agnostics, atheists, or just-don't-give-a-hoot. >Is it uncommon but not unheard of for a family to assume that a child >is going to follow the "family's faith," but the child (now young adult) >surprises them by declaring for a different faith, say, either at >the time of their naming or within a few years afterwards? Again, most kids follow the family religion and remain within the traditional fold. A few oddballs are always found, who go off on their own to join something else. I do recall a rather serious, mild young man from the Red Sword Clan (I think), who went off to become a priest of Lord Belkhanu instead of the expected Vimuhla, Chiteng, or even possibly Karakan. He was indeed an odd duck. Married a woman who was an officer in the prison police, the Legion of Ketl. [Moderator's Note: How about Princess Ma'in? In Message 244 you mentioned ] [ that she was tricked into converting... How did that ] [ happen? ] > (would that be considered a conversion? Not if it was a "close" deity: e.g. Thumis to Ketengku, Hnalla to Thumis, even Vimuhla to Karakan. "Farther" conversions raise higher eyebrows and occasion more wailing and teeth-gnashing amongst one's family members. >Last question for tonight... Is there a list somewhere that tells >for what kinds of occasions the different "24 Forms" of ceremonial >dress are used? I don't think there is a list as such. I do recall that the old Zocchi Sourcebook had something to say about this, but I can't lay my hand on it just now. Essentially, the 24th Form is used in the Hall of the Petal Throne and nowhere else, and the other Forms are for less and less "ceremonial" occasions in order of descending importance, down to making a social visit to one's kinsfolk in another clanhouse. There is no Form for sleeping, working at a daily job, going shopping, casual visits, etc. These Forms are limited to the Upper Crust of Tsolyani urban society and are not universal throughout the country -- much less the Five Empires. Fashions also change, and what may be 20th Form today may be up- or down-graded tomorrow, depending upon current social leaders. If you're from a smaller city, you're a hick, whatever your background or social antecedents. It's rather like a "Colonial" from the United States trying to fit into the uppercrust British aristocracy. Only a few are realy accepted. The rest of us remain barbarians... [Moderator's Note: This question went unanswered the first time around, and ] [ the Professor remembered and followed up with it. ] >There was recent mention in the "London" journals about a PCs >son's name-choosing ceremony/party. (is there a specific name >for this? I can't recall off hand.) Never dawned on me to ask. The word for the name choosing-ceremony seems to be khatunjalim(-ikh). The "jalim" part is the same as Kolumejalim(-koi): an ancient Engsvanyali root for "to choose, select." This root is not much used in modern Tsolyani, where "to choose" is now "repul." "Khatun(-ikh)" is still used for "name," of course. Note the "non- honorific" suffix "-ikh") is added to these words when the noun has no prefixes. Phil ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //276 [Moderator's Note: Jack Bramah asks the following about the symbols along ] [ the map that came in the Gardasiyal box. A list was made] [ up, and TOME was supposed to send it to buyers. In case ] [ you missed it, Professor Barker has permitted me to post ] [ it. Here it is. ] >Looking back at the old postings Phil said that the symbols on >the East side of the map in Gardasiyal were clan sigils. Any ideas which >clans? For reference number from 1-17 starting at the top left corner >and counting clockwise. Somebody recently asked me for a list of what the deity and clan symbols mean on the Gardasiyal maps. I originally put this information into a flyer and asked Tome to include it with each game. I don't know whether or not they ever did so. For those who are missing it, let me add this information here: SIDE ONE: Map of Tsolyanu-Livyanu: Reading from TOP CENTRE and going clockwise (to the RIGHT) around the map and back again: Hnalla Vimuhla Sarku Ksarul Dlamelish Hru'u Gruganu Hrihayal Durritlamish Chiteng Wuru (bottom centre) Dra Ketengku Chegarra Dilinala Qon Belkhanu Avanthe Thumis Karakan SIDE TWO: The Eastern Lands: Starting with the TOP CENTRE and going clockwise (to the RIGHT) all around the map: Tlakotani Black Stone Golden Bough Amber Cloak Cloak of Azure Gems Vriddi Ensorcelled Goblet Red Sun Red Mountain (English at bottom centre) Jade Diadem Golden Sunburst Dark Fear Sea Blue Staff of Beneficence Golden Bough Great Stone Emerald Diadem Pass this on to whomever wants it! Thanks, Phil ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //277 [Moderator's Note: We'll start off first with a message from Nick Brooke, ] [ on naming ceremonies. ] Legend >> = Professor's original comments > = Nick's questions = Professor's answers >On today's Blue Room mailing list, re: naming ceremonies, you wrote: > >> In other cities, there are slightly differing ceremonies... You don't need >> to ask about Sarku and Durritlamish... > >Unfortunately, given my current fascination with popular cultic practices >in the Kraa Hills, that's just what I'd have loved to know! Not >sophisticated, urban, decadent, demon-worshipping, undead-fixated Sarku >worshippers of the Temples, but the quiet agrarian folk up in the hills, >the fertile recruiting grounds for the Legion of the Scales of Brown, >the Battalions of the Seal of the Worm, etc. >Anything you can tell me (now that I've asked for the unspeakable) will be >gratefully received. Naming ceremonies in the Kraa Hills resemble those of other clans and areas of the Empire, except that the Sarku/Durritlamish worshippers take their young candidates to the nearest cemetery and introduce them -- literally -- to the bones of their deceased ancestors. This is done in very ceremonious, formal fashion, with the new adult's personal name, then lineage name, then clan name, all read out to the skeletons of his/her predecessors. There is usually a sort of "tour" of the catacombs, stopping at each sepulchre and grave-site to "speak" to the assembled dead. Food, incense, and thick brownish mead are presented to the young adults, and a priest finally rubs their faces with white bone-dust mixed with oil, All of the children of a clan or lineage (often of a single village) undergo this process at the same time, and there are usually a few younger ones who manage to squeak in, along with older adolescents who may even be a little past "official" puberty. The ceremonies finish with a procession back to the home village(s), with music, amber-glass lanterns, incense, singing, and stataues of the Worm Lord borne along on palanquins. It's quite a sight. >Left to myself, I'd assume their coming-of-age rites might include >some acknowledgement of the horror, finality and necessity of death; >the extinction of one life for the perpetuation of others; all flesh >returning to the insatiable maw of the Worm. Perhaps giving a child a >new pet some months before the ceremony, letting him/her develop an >attachment for the sweet fluffy thing, then slaughtering it and making >the child watch as it is 'reclaimed' by the worm? (I worry this may be >too rooted in 20th-Century Western sentimentality). I don't think this is done anywhere. Animals are usually treated as valuable, both as pets and as commodities. The priests do give sermons to the assembled candidates on the impermanence of death,the return to the Tomb, the glory of the Worm, and the like. >I also note the triple cicatrices of the mountain clans of the Kraa >Hills (Man of Gold ch.24): are these, perhaps, also related to this >ritual? No; they're clan symbols that show members' devotion to the cult of the Worm. Everybody gets a name and a lineage, but only true devotees are given the triple cicatrices. Sometimes these are combined with induction into the inner rites of the temple of Sarku (and Durritlamish as well). >On another matter: might the Durritlamish and Sarku-worshipping Tomb >Police treat marauding Undead from the Necropolis as you or I might >treat a senile or slightly deranged elderly relative who wanders out >from his hospital bed and into the streets, accosting passers-by at >random? Gently but firmly preventing them from damaging bystanders, >or themselves, and helping them back to their proper place -- in this >case, the tomb? I have never heard of marauding Undead, although it is possible... Most Undead stay put below ground, where they are more comfortable in the dark. On occasion, they may be brought out of the Underworld by some commander or senior priest, but this is for special occasions or for specific "jobs" only. Phil -- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //278 [Moderator's Note: The 7th chapter of the London diary. ] 6th Drenggar Back home at last. The Governor was fairly reasonable about everything. He just made us swear not to reveal to anyone who the pirate chief had been. 7th Drenggar We've been joined on board by three priestesses of Hrihayal. Jadhak seems keen to discuss some of the doctrinal connections between Chiteng and Hrihayal. Whether this involves practical application I don't know. 8th Drenggar A strange ship met us on the seas, crewed by complete foreigners. Nobody understood their language, though Kanmi'yel thought their writing looked a bit like Llyani. They seemed to have some pact of defence with the Three Demon Brothers. We barely escaped with our lives and the ship intact. 10th Drenggar We are cursed! Are we never going to get back home? As a result of Jadhak's "close doctrinal discussions" he managed to find that the priestesses are not priestesses of Hrihayal at all! Unfortunately before we could do anything about this they attacked us. It seems that they are the Ksarul priestesses of last year returned from the dead to haunt us. They hit us with some spell that drew us into a nexus point, they were obviously hoping to cast us into the sea at some distance from the ship, where we would drown. By chance, or by the blessings of the gods we found ourselves under the sea within a metal chamber. We found some "Eyes" hidden in the chamber. Tests would indicate that at least two are Eyes of Aerial Excellence. This means that if we should be able to get out of the chamber we can at least follow the ship and get our revenge, as the priestesses must surely believe us to be dead. 11th Drenggar With a certain ampount of tinkering the chamber has risen to the surface and we are starting our pursuit. (Later) We caught up with the ship and were fighting well, even when the priestesses called upon the aid of Lord O@*&%b. Baluri, Tlangten and I fought the demon while Jadhak and Kanmi'yel dealt with the sorceresses. At this point Ssomu took leave of his senses and decided that since the primary magic was not working, a bit of secondary was in order (This from a warrior with the brains of a chlen). We were unfortunate that he had a magic sword which could bring forth the Carpet of Conflagration. This he cast upon the deck of the ship, which, needless to say, caught fire in a spectacular fashion, and sank, taking the priestesses and the surviving crew with it. We were fortunate to be able to fly off the deck. However, we were left hundresds of miles from land with no vessel floating above the ocean. We decided to fly back to the metal chamber, and hope it was still afloat. 12th Drenggar We are aboard the chamber. There is nothing to do but wait until a ship passes by to rescue us. Fortunately we seem to be well supplied (both naturally and magically). 15th Drenggar Just as we thought the food was so boring that we'd prefer to die rather than be subjected to Nutrifaction rations again a ship appeared. Our spirits soared. Until it turned out to be a ship crewed by Ahoggya. Rations would be preferable to that! Thanks to my tact and diplomacy (Jadhak and Tlangten have the opposite) we hitched a ride from them, and for a small consideration decided to take their cargo to Jakalla rather than Chame'el. Ssomu was prevailed upon to supply the required inducements, since it was his stupid fault we were stuck here anyway. When we get home I'll need to spend at least a week in the bath. -- Viscount Veshtaru hi Chaishyani (Jack Bramah) Legion of the Mighty Heroes of Avanthar Molmitlan Otulengba! ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //279 [Moderator's Note: Alex Stojanovic offers an interesting treatise on his ] [ views of Livyanu, and its beginnings, including the ] [ importance of the City of Dlash and the true nature of ] [ Livyanu's Shadow God Pantheon. ] I have developed a little source material/background on the City of Dlash and the founding of the Livyani state. It is told thorugh the biography of one of the major characters involved. This is for my "personal Tekumel" of course, not the "official Tekumel". I wanted to get other list readers' responses and comments on the material. The material should also probably go to the contrib directory - if that still exists. [Moderator's Note: It does! And I will place it there after you get some ] [ feedback, in case you want to make some changes, or ex- ] [ pand on the material. ] On Niru'az Khainutl of Dlash: The Sword of Paradise Some Comments on the Founding and History of Llyan's Empire and the Sacred City of Dlash (Unofficial musings by Alexander Stojanovic) Niru'az Khainutl is the scion of one of the oldest clans and lineages in secret-shrouded Dlash - the sealed city in the heart of the Livyani Empire. His family claims to trace its roots back to the founding of Llyan's empire, when the worship of the Old Ones was still nascent - and before the orthodox doxology of the Shadow Gods was used to shroud the True Faith from the prying eyes of foreigners. The Khainutl lineage represents one of the ancient lines of cenobites and ecclesiastical rulers of the City of Dlash - from the time it was founded by Tatregaz Jakaraz Niotl - later to become one of the half-legendary Apostles of the One Who Is. Ironically, it was Tatregaz Jakaraz and his Brotherhood of the One True Shadow that swept away the last vestiges of the "false beliefs" and heresies that the early Livyani clung to - the still-whispered beliefs in travel through intergalactic space, and mighty empires spanning a universe filled with countless stars and planets. Before becoming a theocratic order with a stranglehold over all of Livyanu, the Brotherhood was a society for researchers and scholars interested in the investigation of higher-dimensional geometries and mathematics - hoping against hope to find an explanation for Tekumel's current position in its pocket dimension and a manner in which to navigate back to Tekumel's original position within Humanspace. After the "success" of its research programs - which resulted in the complete abandonment of this line of research for reasons shortly explained - the transformed Brotherhood purged its ranks of the heretics who still clung to the dying machines and the fragments of ancient technology after more than 5000 years with hopes of reuniting with the rest of Humanspace - and set about instituting the theocracy that Livyanu would become known for. The pyres of the One Who Is were fed with the bodies of heretics and those who opposed the spread of the True Faith - those who claimed that the Shadow Gods were not the immanent divinity that Jakaraz and his brothers proclaimed them to be once their "minds" were opened by the visions emanating from the tenebrous Deity brought through the curves of higher-dimensional space-time by the errant work of the Brotherhood in its stronghold-laboratories in Dlash. The reason for this abrupt and complete transformation in the goals and aspirations of the order was this: The Brotherhood of the One True Shadow had made contact with several beings in the course of their research within the City State of Dlash in the final Age of Hiutaz Llyani - forty-sixth descendent of Llyan of Tsamra and a patron of science and spiritual disciplines. Conducting their research with the mass-point (i.e. sub-proton-sized black hole) drive systems scavenged from the Great Ship/Monoliths of the distant Northwest - they embarked on an examination of the Riemmanian space-time geometries and tesseract-forms produced by their defective and dangerously unstable drive systems in this curious dimension Tekumel had plunged into. They succeeded beyond their wildest dreams - breaking through to dimensions and continuums never dreamed of by Mankind through the unstable mass-point drives as they twisted-and malformed the space-time fabric of Tekumel - until the fabric itself was torn in the tiniest of possible degrees(at the Planck scale - 10-33cm in length). It was through this smallest of ruptures/fissures that a terrifying being-consciousness emerged. The research of the Brotherhood had accidentally led to contact with the terrible and puissant Deity called the One Who Is - or Ju'iataz Mssaru in the ancient tongue of Llyan of Tsamra. Following the beacon of the 28-dimensional tensor formed by the defective drive systems, a small fragment of this entity's consciousness entered the space-time manifold of Tekumel's pocket dimension - drawn to the fecund and Being-rich dimension of Tekumel - ready to feast on the Pedhetl of the sentients it could sense as it approached through the interstitial space-time fracture - like darkness pouring in though an open window at dusk. The Brotherhood of the One True Shadow was barely able to control the being-fragment of this unbelievably malevolent and rapacious Deity that extruded into the space-time of Tekumel, but was finally able to "contain" it in a complex poly-dimensional tesseract-lattice beneath Dlash - in a place that would come to be whispered of as "The Darkness Below the World" for millenia thereafter in the liturgies of the Shadow Gods throughout legend haunted Livyanu. Jakaraz and his brethren were able to contain, but hardly master, this being - who was able over the course of centuries to enter the souls of the brethren (through dreams and visions) - subtly corrupting them and turning them into worshippers and prolestyzers of a new vision of the world and cosmos - one in which service and homage to the One Who Is (now known to Livyani as The One of Fears) was made the core of belief and social life. The lattice erected by the Brotherhood could not be dismantled (a wise precaution of the original researchers) - but a sufficient amount of the Deity's core energy could seap through the poly-dimensional tesseract-lattices and pour into Tekumel and consume/interact with the native energy-matrices (what Engsvanyali theologians could come to call /Pedhetl/). In a sense "chained" to this space-time manifold by the tesseract-lattice of the Brotherhood, the One Who Is settled down to a curious parasitic/symbiotic relationship with the beings it found in this dimension. Shortly thereafter, other beings like itself were summoned and contained within similar lattices - including the Goddess of the Pale Bone and the devious being known as the One Other. This symbiotic relationship has existed without interruption since then, to the present - 2366 A.S. Even the theological jihads of the Engsvanyali Priestkings, who reigned for almost 15,000 years, were unable to shake the foundations of the Livyani State - and the recondite and ancient faith of the Livyani - who embraced their curious trinity of gods beneath layers of symbolism, aspect theologies, and numerous "names" to hide the terrible nature of their faiths from foreigners and even from themselves to an extent. As the great poet Li'otaz Chirruga wrote in his Threnody to the Pale Goddess in Tsamra over 10,000 years ago, "Would not the soul would be blinded if it suddenly opened its eyes in the Gardens of Paradise? Certainly, for the soul must become slowly accustomed to the terrible light of Paradise, to emerge slowly from the cave of Being into the Glorious Nullity of Our Lady - the Devourer of Worlds!" The secrets of Livyani theology are wound in layers of allegory, dissembling, "red herrings", and rituals that purposely exclude all but the inner eschelons of society from any true understanding of the core of their faith. At the core of this Byzantine edifice of beliefs, enshrined distortions, and rituals still shines the cold, black brilliance and terror-filled worship of the Old Ones - the original three "Gods" brought to Tekumel through the research of the Brotherhood of the One True Shadow. In time, Dlash became a sealed city - a sacred site for worship and study for the faithful. The lineages of the original Apostles became the ruling theocrats and leaders of most of Livyanu - but only a few lineages and family lines know the full truth of the One Who Is and the Pariah Deities - most are content with the rituals, beliefs, and sacrifices to these evil and terrible beings as perscribed by tradition and custom. The Khainutl lineages is one of the most ancient - and its members are the elite of the theocratic aristocracy within Dlash. In Tsamra and other Livyani cities, these lineages are given wide discretion in action - indeed the Khainutl ancestors of Niru'az were among the founders of the Vru'uneb - the feared secret police that holds most Livyani in its fearsome grip. Many mistakenly believe that Tsamra was the sole seat of power in Livyanu - actually it is Dlash which holds the true spiritual reins of state. The Theocrats of Dlash have always kept a strong grip on their own citizens, who are devoted to the worship of the One of Fears - the current name for the being brought through the space-time curves of 28-dimensional space-time to lonely, isolated Tekumel almost 27,000 years ago. The Shadow Gods, represented to foreigners as a set of Deities not-unlike the orthodox Pavar pantheon established 15,000 years ago by the Priestkings of Engsvan hla Ganga, are in fact an intricate aspect theology for a much older set of Gods - the beings guardingly referred to as "Pariah Deities"/Old Ones by Pavar in his scrolls. It is ironic to note that Pavar himself was a former worshipper of a debased and derivative form of one of the most terrible Pariah Deities, for he worshipped an old aspect of the god worshipped today under the name of Ksarul -Doomed Prince of the Blue Room. Over the millenia, many emissary races of the Pariah Deities have been brought to Tekumel - and carefully "controlled" by the Livyani within their masterful tesseract-lattices - called Tsi'ikatesh Mu'otl in the sacred liturgical language of Dlash, Duru'ob, - which translates roughly as "The Encircling Mirror-Forms of Eternity". The Livyani more than almost anyone on Tekumel have understood what the price of allowing unrestricted access to Tekumel's dimension by these beings would mean. Still, within the walls of Dlash - which are themselves actually multi-dimensional tesseract fields extending into all 28-dimensions and safeguard against the unrestrained emergence of the Goddess of the Pale Bone, the One Other, and One Who Is, -- there roam the minions of these Old Ones - the Brethren of the Vermilion Spire, the Cenobites of the Open Wound, and other fearsome messengers and emissaries. Few except the senior hierophants of Dlash have seen these beings in their true forms - fortunately for the sanity of the common man. It has been mistakenly thought by other races and nations that Dlash is a city sealed primarily to keep others from entering its sacred temples, shrines, and prescints - when in truth the city was designed to keep the fearsome Deities worshipped and feared by the Livyani "contained". The wards and binding matrices require a huge cost in human/sentient sacrifices - for it is only the Pedhetl of sentient beings that can appease the One of Fears and maintain the tesseract-lattices used to contain him/her/it. The appetite of this god would make the sacrifical pyres of Lord Vimulha appear as the smallest of dying embers - it truly knowns no boundary or limit if left unchecked. This has been one of the chief tasks of the Brotherhood since the initial contact and summoning - to keep their dark and tenebrous God well fed and satiated - lest he finally break his bounds and tear open the very heavens with his awesome might. Few foreigners invited or brought to Dlash ever leave - they are usually hand-picked sacrifices for the delectation of the One of Fears and held for special ceremonies and rituals observed by the hierophants of Dlash in the catacombs and shrines below their brooding, ancient city. Indeed, Dlash is one of the few cities of Tekumel where institutionalized riutal cannibalism (a mocking imitation of their God) is an enshrined social practice. It is said the one can recognize a man from Dlash by his teeth - which are sharpened for rending flesh. The huge public ceremony called "The Ritual of Re-Entering" held in Dlash on the second day of Sharpu each year is an ancient reminder of the nature of the One of Fears and the melancholy fate promised to all beings by this devious and malignant Deity - a promised re-entry into Tekumel and the consumption of all sentient life-energy in a final apocalyptic orgy of unbridled destruction and ecstacy! No sane man should ever enter the city of Dlash at this time or any other - lest his soul end up feeding the One of Fears in its/his/her own terrible plane of Nullity. Indeed, one of the God's most fearsome aspects in Dlash is "The Shining Void" - especially beloved and venerated by the sect called "The Joyous in Twilight Splendor" whose reputation for unimaginable cruelties and orgiastic murder-festivals stretchs back to the founding of the Bednalljan Dynasties. The great interest in demonology and other planar topology in the Age of Llyan was not an accidental development - it was a practical necessity brought upon by the bungling misadventures of the Brotherhood - whose mistakes with higher-dimensional tesseract shaping have led to a "blood pact" with the most malevolent of beings for millenia. Only the strongest wards, rituals, spells, and bindings can keep the Pariahs contained within Dlash and a few other locations on Tekumel - as the Riemman-Einsteinian tensors, Kerr-Newman, and Reissner-Nordstrom geometries generated to bind the Pariah-energies are called now by the modern Livyani. The higher-order mathematics and topological models once used to construct the tesseract-lattices for the One Who Is have been replaced by syncretic rituals and beliefs - which have distorted the ancestry of the techniques used by the original Livyani to bind their god(s) to the sacred caverns beneath Dlash. The ancient Terran science of the stranded Humanspace colonists has given way to theological and magical explanations and powers - aided by the immense availability of Pedhetl/Nexal energy in Tekumel's new dimension - and especially in the area occupied by the Livyani peninsula. A part of this is a proximate result of the protrusion of the One Who Is directly into the plane - the immense energies emanated by this Deity have been the source of much of this "surplus" - tapped by Livyani and Llyani sorcerers over the centuries for explorations and cartography of the "Planes Beyond". It is even hinted by those who are in a position to speak the truth that the famous Waba, called "The Cartographer of Suns", was privy to the techniques and knowledge of the secret, inner schools and undying scholars of the One of Fears(Duru'ob: Myan'azi Nu'ux) in Dlash - the most knowledgeable humans on Tekumel on the topologies of the "God Planes". (Note: The undying scholars include four of the seventeen Apostles of the One Who Is (all of them original members of the Brotherhood of the One True Shadow), who have not emerged from the Sacred Vaults of the Final Sun since the passing of Llyan's Empire into the dust of history. Few have met these men - who are said to have been "merged" into the essence of their God - becoming one with the ecstatic void of presence, emerging from the "essence" of their Lord only when great rituals such as The Feast of Re-Entering are performed - and are always referred to as the "Speakers of the Voice of Night". It was rumored that the heretical Tlakotani Emperor Tontiken Rirune, "The Slave of Demons", met his death on this Plane while "visiting" the sacred prescincts of Dlash - and witnessing the Speakers of the Voice of Night prophecy his doom. Tontiken was said to have be borne off by demons - the truth of his passage was far more monstrous. I shall not speak more of it here.) Some have even further suggested that Waba's Almanac is but a poor and partial copy and palimpsest of a much older and detailed work held in the Sacred Vaults of the Final Sun beneath Dlash - enscribed on the shifting multi-planar forms dancing around the "Black Sun" of the One of Fears - the holwing void at the center of all dimensions and space-times. To gaze upon this sight of shifting forms, colors, sounds, and noises, legend has it, is to drive any man into the final embrace of the One of Fears - who is with excellent reason called "The Void Stalker " and "The Final Sun"!. Most people simply believe that this is a fortuitous circumstance of nature, that Livyanu is "blessed" with such fecundity of nexal energy. Only the inner circles of the hierophants of Dlash know the true reason! This is the history of the millennial culture, lineage and clan of which Niru'az Khainutl is the modern descendent. Niru'az's training was in the traditional mould of the Khainutl lineage - ecclessiastical training within the Temple of the One of Fears in Dlash, supplemented by advanced training in espionage and assassination techniques within the elite Vru'uneb schools in Dlash and Tsamra. Niru'az is considerd one of the best of his generation - and has been initiated into secrets and "orders" that comprise so much of Livyani life. He is a member, like all of his lineage for the past millenia, of the ultra-exclusive Brotherhood of the One True Shadow - the main power block within Dlash and one of the three "cells" which ultimately rule Livyanu through a myriad of institutions, puppet-governments, fronts, and bureaucratic offices. Niru'az evinced at an early age a prodigious gift for languages and sorcerous training. His mentor, the legendary Kaimaz Arrio, took the young Niru'az under his wing, initiating him within the secrets and traditions of his lineage and the various sects and cells which determine the course of Livyani political and spiritual life. Niru'az was trained in several classical languages, including Sunuz and Duru'ob - the liturgical and philosophical-theological language of the Priesthood in Dlash. In fact, his translations of the Codicil of Ku'Atep and The Ecstasy of the Soul's Journey into the Null are now considered modern classics. His scholarly work alone would have established his reputation among the powerful houses of Dlash and Tsamra. However, Niru'az was not satisfied with this path, and chose to devote himself to serving his God through the Vru'uneb - the so-called Path of the Sword of Paradise. This path, unlike the scholar's Nine-Fold Path of the Chrysanthemum, meant that his training would continue in Tsamra, at the private school of Chanaz Dielmu - one of the spy-masters of Livyanu. It was while studying assassination and spiritual techniques at the school that Niru'az met his professional mentor Geimaz Zhartosh, an urbane and witty scholar who had spent his youth rising through the ranks of the Vru'uneb to become its secret leader. With Geimaz, Niru'az learned the deep spirituality that lies at the core of Livyani society - the sense of "right action" that allows the cold fire of fanaticism to be applied with the skill of a surgeon to the political affairs of the theocratic state. The "trained" Livyani spy-assassin is first and foremost a devoted believer in the cause - a "Sword of Paradise" in this world. After more than five years of training, studying, and daily drills and exercises, Niru'az was graduated from the elite school - holding the rank of Khuaz within the Vru'uneb. While there at the academy, he met what were to become his two closest friends: Uoz (Captain) Jaimaz Chinaru of the Obsidian Mirror Clan and Dlaineb (Captain) Aizaz Sharune of the Open Hands of Kirrineb Clan. These three, who had spent their entire lives together, first in the temple school of the One of Fears in Dlash, and later in the private school of Chanaz Dielmu, were to become famous for their friendship and "success" in their profession - master spies and infiltrators of foreign governments for the good of the Livyani State. At twenty-eight, Niru'az had spent the previous nineteen years in strict, almost monastic training: both as a scholar-sorcerer in Dlash, and as an assassin-spy in Tsamra. His first assignments were in the Courts of the half-mad Mu'ugalavyani Prince Hrekkumish Mssaru in Kheiris - where he was able to provide his master Geimaz Zhartosh with countless military secrets of the Mu'ugalavyani elite legions over the course of three years - earning a promotion to the Tsolyani capital of Bey Su. Had he been in Mu'ugalavya before the outbreak of the terrible Plague of the White Hand, perhaps the fate of his country would have been different. Unfortunately, the sad state of his country today, overrun by Mu'ugalavya RedHats, has made him curse this train of events bitterly. His desire to see the Mu'ugalavyani vanquished and obliterated seeps through every fiber of his being. His country in near ruins, except for forbidden Dlash, Niru'az has been almost cast adrift in Tsolyani politics - with only his own instincts to guide him and his cell of operatives. Most of his overseers and handlers were killed either by the Plague or in the ensuing war. He has been in Bey Su for nearly a year since the tragedy in Livyanu - finding solace only in his two friends - who were posted with him to Bey Su on his personal request. He currently continues to play the role of a "bored" aristocrat biding his time in the great city on a dull diplomatic assignment - all the while plotting his revenge against those who started the Plague and downfall of Livyanu - if he can find them in the web of Byzantine intrigue and Machiavellian politics that Tsolyanu is so well known for! Some informants blame the Tsolei Pirates, others the Mu'ugalavyani. Niru'az is keeping an eye out for any clues and leads. The fate of those he finally catches or encounters along the way to righteous vengence is best not thought about. He is, aside from his scholarly and military prowess, an accomplished Den-den player and poet. A connoisseur of Livyani wines and classical Bednalljan poetry, he is a frequent guest of the noblest clans and lineages at the innumerable fetes and parties thrown throughout the year in Bey Su and at the sumptuously appointed estates and villas of the powerful in Tsolaynu. His web of spies includes senior priests in the temples of Ksarul, Sarku, and Hru'u of the Tlokiriqaluyal and Belkhanu, Thumis, and Karakan among the Tlomitlanyal. He has innumerable contacts and informants in the Palaces of Foreign Lands and War, and possesses at least four concubines from the diplomatic retinues of Salarvya, Yan Kor and Saa Allaqi. He is a passionate, mercurial individual who can pass from urbane witticisms to savage violence in the blink of an eye as the situation demands. He is the sword of paradise devoted to the protection and preservation of his country and culture. He will allow nothing to stand in his way. ---end text--- Has anyone else been gaming in the distant past, in one of the historical empires discussed in the Sourcebook? If so, where and when? Descriptions would be appreciated! Have there been any other pilgrims to Dlash over the years? I would love to hear their tales! This material is, of course, totally speculative and makes no claim to be a depiction of the "real" state of affairs. - Any advise/hints on the Livyani would be welcome. Oh, and feel free to flame away if you think I have totally missed the mark! :) Alexander Stojanovic ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //280 [Moderator's Note: Bill Faulkner asks about a Tsolyani font, and the Council] [ of Priesthoods. The Professor responds. ] [Moderator's Note: In response to Bill's Question about a Tsolyani font. ] I have developed a new Tsolyani font, which you can get from the Blue Room. Chris has it already, as well as Livyani, Sunuz, and Yan Koryani. I even did a little special font for the Tsolyani numerals. The font is a "reversed" font: you type it in normal English order in an art programme (like Aldus Superpaint), then do a "flip horizontal," and then cut and paste into your document. It's the only way to get a right-to-left font without a lot of sweat, blood, and tears. [Moderator's Note: I am working on makeing the Font stuff available on the ] [ ftp site. I think most everything is ready, but I need ] [ to fine tune a couple of things. Given that this is tax ] [ time here, I'll try to have them up by Monday. There ] [ will be both a Truetype version, and a Mac suitcase. ] >I have your article on Hnalla that touches on the council, but still have >many questions. I assume that each temple has a single representative >to the council, and that each representative has a staff of some size. >Any details about the council would be welcomed. Each temple has a Jashten "Lord Adept" on the Council, plus about 20 subordinates, scribes, etc. What would be the title of a representative (the actual council members). Jashtendalidalikoi hiMitlanyal is enough of a title. >What stucture and titles are used within the council. I >know that the Hnalla representative traditionally leads the council, but >what is his title? As just above. The pronoun is that for Senior Priest, of course. Is there a second in command (so to speak) and his title, etc. Not specifically. If necessary, an ad-hoc election can be held. This is rare. >Also, I was wondering if you had the names and clans of each council >member. I could make it up for my adventure, but why not make it closer >to the real thing. I don't have the names of the current council members. They changed after the last accession (Dhich'une), and I don't know who's on it now. >What sort of staff would each council member have. I know it is probably >dependant upon the temple and individual, but an example, with titles >would be nice. About 20 people, as said above. This does not include a contingent of guards, slaves to bear the palanquins, musicians, dancers, singers, and the like. >On a almost unrealated note, I want to thank you for giving us the clan >symbols on the new Tekumel map. I was wondering if there was any way you >could send me some clan symbols for the player-characters I will be >using? Any format would be fine, I'd prefer an electronic copy if >possible, but whatever you could supply would be a real bonus. I really want >to infuse the players with a sense of Tsolyanu society. I do have a few more clan symbols, but they are not drawn very well -- only sketched on pads of lined paper. They need work before I could even scan them in for you. Do have a look at my latest font, through Chris. [Moderator's Note: I have. And things will be up on Monday. With recent ] [ events, I haven't even really begun to look at my taxes. ] [ I guess that's what weekends are for. ;( Good luck on your game! Phil ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //281 [Moderator's Note: Bob Crane is running a Tekumel PBEM and would like char-] [ acter submissions. Please send your messages directly ] [ to him at the address listed in the bottom of the ] [ message. ] In conjunction with an unnamed individual, I am planning on starting a Tekumel PBEM campaign shortly. The campaign will center around "high-level" PCs embroiled in the Machiavellian political intrigue typical of Tsolyani society. The campaign will also explore events surrounding the plague in Livyanu (just to give a small hint of what can be expected). In running the PBEM campaign, I plan on taking full advantage of the PBEM forum while avoiding its potential pitfalls. That is, PCs will be allowed to act independently without being constrained by a group of PCs that must be together in one place and time. In fact, I plan on setting up scenarios where the goals of some PCs will be indirect conflict with other PCs, and it may be difficult for a PC to determine if he or she is interacting with another PC or a NPC. I also plan on avoiding time consuming activities like "dungeon crawls" in an attempt to keep the game moving quickly. Let me briefly discuss my gaming philosophy. I plan on making the campaign one that seriously explores the world of Tekumel. To this end, I plan on running a "simulation" style game. This will involve "arming" PCs with plenty of high-level attributes, skills, magic items, and allies and then casting the "high-level" PCs into the dangerous world of Tsolyani politics and the like. Up and foremost, PC actions will have realistic consequences. Player Characters that act with intelligence and cunning will most likely succeed. Those that act with little thought or rashness can expect to die. I have little qualms about killing a PC if the situation truly and logically warrants it. Player characters can expect to be one of the major pieces in an intense game of Den Den!. In my experience, this type of game makes for the best excitement and allows for truly heroic and "noble" action. I pledge to moderate my campaign with fairness and impartiality to all PCs. If a PC is killed permanently, the player will be welcome to re-enter the game as another PC if he or she chooses to do so. I am preferably looking for players with (1) some experience with Tekumel and (2) plenty of time to respond quickly to my emails. Since I will be running a "high-level" campaign, players should have a decent idea of how to generate and play such a character. Thus, I would expect players to have at least read the two Tekumel novels or previously participated in a Tekumel campaign as a PC or GM. Since I want to keep the campaigns running at a fairly fast pace, I prefer players that will be able to respond to my email within a 24-48 hour period, seven days a week. In addition, I prefer players that have the capability to "talk" via the internet just in case the PC finds himself in a situation requiring a lot of GM interaction. If the sound of this Tekumel PBEM campaign interests you, please send to me a biography of your character for consideration by myself and unnamed in- dividual. At this time, I am most interested in a detailed history of the character's skill development, clan involvement, religious involvement, and relationships with family, friends, mentors, enemies, etc. The more detailed the biography, the better. The PC should be currently stationed in Be Su and the current year is 2367 with Dhich'une still in rule. I am fairly open to any type of PC (soldier, administrator, priest, etc.) but I am in need of one or two high-level priests of Sarku (hint, hint!) and possibly Ksarul. Player characters from past Tekumel campaigns are more than welcome. I will be using RPG rules that have been derived from GURPS, FUDGE, and S&G. However, the RPG mechanics will be invisible to all PCs, so please describe all attributes and skills in qualitative terms (e.g., "very strong" or "average craftsman level"). If your PC is accepted for play in the campaign, then expect the PC to go through a series of modifications so that it best fits into the grandiose scenarios we plan to run. Characters not accepted may be allowed to enter the game at a later time. I am looking for approximately five or six PCs at this time, but this is not a hard limit. -bob crane rcrane@wsu.edu ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //282 [Moderator's Note: Our member in Japan, Paul Mason, asked the Prof a couple ] [ of questions through me, that I want to get out on the ] [ list, because the topics are excellent. Paul's comments ] [ are the ones with > and >>'s in front. He asked 2 rounds] [ of questions before I decided to post them. Phil, he has] [ some more comments/questions after your first answer. ] >>In particular I'm curious about the hands on practicalities of showing >>relative status in speech _other than_ through the pronouns. In >>particular, the way in which a Palace of the Realm bureaucrat would >>address a crowd of persons of unknown origin (the Falesa islanders) >>and what, exactly, he might do if they were not appropriately >>respectful to him. There are many ways of showing status. The use of honorific pronouns is accompanied by words and phrases, similar to "your lordship," "highness," "if your excellency pleases..." These are complex and difficult to simulate in a gaming group. There are also special honorific lexical substitutions: e.g. tlakatl for "to give" instead of fazha. The former is more imperious and abrupt, and is used by a superior to an inferior. "To come" is expressed by pal, but whn speaking to or about an honoured person, tsamoyel is substituted. >I should have dug out my copy of the Tsolyani Language, I can see. >This, for me, confirmed a theory I have long held, that we should be >playing the game in Japanese. All of the above honorifics translate >directly into everyday Japanese. I had considered using English >honorifics, but it lends a very stilted air to the proceedings. No, >Japanese is definitely the way forward for me... There are others. Subordinates bow their heads when listening to an honoured person -- and if in the presence of a really high person, such as an Imperial Prince), people kneel and touch the ground with their foreheads. This is not done by officers on campaign, of course, or by those whose headdresses might suffer damage thereby. A simple, formal bow is usually sufficient, except in the Hall of the Petal Throne, where EVERYBODY hits the floor. I doubt that a High Prince would ever be required to confront peasants from the Farise Isles. If this did occur, the latter would assuredly be told to kneel until told to rise, and the Prince himself would not demean himself by speaking to them directly; instead, he would speak to a chamberlain, who might then convey the message to a lower chamberlain, who could pass it on to a still lower person -- etc. -- until it got down to somebody whose status permitted direct speaking to peasantry. Dress, gesture, posture -- all carry messages. One just has to watch for clues. The sort of "we're all equal" humour that modern Europeans are used to would not have been appropriate in Queen Victoria's presence either. On Tekumel it is downright dangerous. >I can imagine - it's none too good for the health here in Japan! >Now the specific point I wanted to raise was the treatment of those >who transgress etiquette. The cliche about Tsolyanu, which I remember >from the time when I had no knowledge of the world at all, was that it >was a culture in which you would be summarily executed for using the >wrong honorific. That's clearly an exaggeration designed to stress the >lack of equality to which the Professor alluded. >I can understand the mechanism by which those _within_ Tsolyani >society would be forced to (or rather, would instinctively) adopt the >appropriate language. I'm curious, however, about how the average >Tsolyani (not the Prince, nor the General) would handle someone who >didn't fit in: the classic 'uppity foreigner'. >As I have this terrible and common habit of seeking examples from the >world I imagine myself to be living in, I wondered if some Tsolyani >might find themselves totally nonplussed by such a thing. Having spent >their lives with everyone around them behaving in a conventional >fashion, to be confronted by someone who, while not being openly rude, >was far from being as polite as is necessary, maybe they would just be >left speechless and unable to deal with it? Or would I be more correct >in saying that the Tsolyani are made of sterner stuff than the >Japanese? >If I was, for example, a relatively low clan member, accosted in the >street by a burly, tanned person with a strange accent, who bore no >clan insignia and who demanded to know the way to the Hirilakte arena, >how might I deal with him and preserve my own prestige (there being >several youngsters of my clan within listening distance)? Should I, >for example, make a point of responding to his rudeness by adopting a >more lofty tone than normal, addressing him using /keshitsam/ or even >/tloshuntsam/ and leaving it at that? Or is there any means by which I >might be able to make use of a handy city militiaman or other >representative of authority in order to put the upstart in his place? >Is shamtla a common solution to social problems even at this low level >in society? And is it not considered gauche to say 'I believe you owe >me shamtla for that remark!'? >I know many players and referees who allow the players' unconventional >manners to work in their favour in Tsolyanu. I don't want to do this, >but I'm not sure exactly how the Tsolyani protect their etiquette from >the unwashed apart from the methods involving judicious doses of >extreme violence. As my games tend to involve more members of the >lower and middle clans than lofty nobles, this is some importance to >me! >It seems traditional to adopt a Tsolyani identity, but I feel that for >me my first Tekumel character would be more appropriate: Karunaz, a >small-time 'enforcer' from Asuaz, who currently lives in Haida Pakala >and styles himself Karunaz hiAsuaz in an ironic comment on his Livyani >origins and Tsolyani citizenship. I hope Karunaz is not an impossible >name for a Livyani. >Please forgive me if my question has been dealt with before: if so, >feel free to scold me and direct me to the appropriate source. >All the best, >Paul ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //283 [Moderator's Note: Bob Dushay responds to Alex's post on Livyanu and Dlash. ] Alex, it's clear you put a lot of effort into your essay on Livyanu/Dlash/your character/etc. Since it is meant for posting to the contrib section after receiving comments, I thought I'd toss a few comments before it's immortalized. You did welcome flames (in good humor), so I hope you don't find this to be too nasty. I think you put in a lot of work for an anti-climax. After wading through so much material, which promised to explain major mysteries about Livyanu and Dlash, it all boils down to "they really worship the Pariah Gods". How disappointing! I was hoping for something a little more clever and creative. Although the struggle with the Pariah Gods is one of the major (hidden) themes of Tekumel, I hardly think that explains every mystery. I think the mystery of the true relationship between the Shadow Gods and Pavar's Twenty is a fascinating one, but to simply boil it down to the Pariah Gods is just too pat. In fact, the more I think about it, the less I believe the Pariah Gods are the essence behind the Shadow Gods at all. Given that the Gods are real beings, we can assume that their followers are directed to fulfill their goals in some fashion. It has been said that humans are imperfect servants, and thus, the goals of the Gods are not directly addressed, but there are some special features about Livyanu that would make for a stronger relationship between the desires of their gods and the actions of the empire. (I limit my description to the period prior to the Mu'ugalavyani conquest.) First of all, Livyanu is a theocracy, more so than all of the other empires. According to Taluvaz Arrio in "The Man of Gold", everything is done at the dictate of the Shadow Gods (or, more likely, at the dictate of their priests). Even Flame-worshipping Mu'ugalavya is not so priest- directed. Second, Livyanu appears to be the most tightly controlled society of the Five Empires: from all descriptions, the Vru'uneb are more effective at domestic surveillance and control than the secret police forces of the other empires. Third, Livyani worship of the Shadow Gods dates back to the days of Llyan of Tsamra, millennia older than worship of any other deities on the planet (except the Pariah Gods). Thus, the Shadow gods would have an incredible grip on Livyani society--surely, if any Tekumel society obeyed the will of their deities, it would be in Livyanu! In spite of this, there are no signs that Livyani society actually supports the plottings of the Pariah Gods. When worshippers of the Goddess of the Pale Bone supported Fu Shi'i in the war between Yan Kor and Tsolyanu, Livyanu of all of the Five Empires did not add to Tsolyanu's woes. In fact, Taluvaz Arrio was personally responsible for thwarting, at least on a temporary basis, the plots of the followers of the Goddess. I would add that the Pariah Gods do not seem to value deviousness and secrets for their own sake, but they do so to protect themselves from being eradicated by worshippers of Pavar's Twenty. Livyani society, on the other hand, values secretiveness, mystery, and deviousness almost as an end to itself. Sounds more like Ksarul than She Who Must Not Be Named. (Although, Alex, you may be one of those who feel Ksarul is a mask for the Pariah Gods, too...which I also feel is an error, but that's another post.) I would be willing to accept that the Pariah Gods are more or less openly worshipped in Dlash--after all, I have no informants there. But, I would not accept that they are the root behind all of the mystery of Livyanu. In addition to disagreeing with the main point of your thesis, I have some less crucial comments to make. I was puzzled by the description of The One Who Is as a ravening hunger. Seems to me that's the speciality of the Goddess of the Pale Bone. The One Who Is is a very mysterious figure, and it diminishes him/her/it to be merely an imitation of the Goddess of the Pale Bone. I was unable to swallow your description of the levels of science in the days of the Empire of Llyan of Tsamra. First of all, I doubt that after the 10,000 years or so of "The Time of Darkness" (longer than modern recorded human history!) there would have been enough knowledge left to permit "...research with the mass-point...drive systems...of the Riemmanian space-time geometries and tesseract-forms..." Were these guys scientists who presumably knew what they were doing or magicians dabbling in forces beyond their comprehension? The levels of mastery of equipment and technology that you portray seemed way out of line after 10,000 years of barbarism. --Bob Dushay Dritlan, the Legion of Obscure Books 1st Imperial Heavy Scholars If you would like, we can discuss this further in private email at Rdushay@delphi.com. ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //284 [Moderator's Note: Listmember Scott Kellog asks about how referees are run- ] [ ning their campaigns. This could lead to rules discus- ] [ sion, so if you have any rules oriented comments, send ] [ them to Scott directly (his address is included below). ] [ If you have general comments, feel free to mail them to ] [ me for inclusion on the list. ] Hi there. I have been reading the Tekumel literature for about twelve years, but have just started running my own game. As a student and semi-pro musician, I don't have seemingly infinite hours available to construct detailed locations and plotlines. My style of running games has always been focused on improvisation and high drama (I am a performer by nature), given a thorough knowledge of the world background. I am attempting to link my game with some of the other games out there, which seems like a popular, and facinating, way to go. Since there are no other Tekumel gamers in my area (Bloomington, IN), I am trying out some PBEM with other players by sharing NPCs and plotlines, so as to be both a player and referee. Because my players are unfamiliar with Tekumel generally, I have them out in the Flats of Tsechelnu poking around some ruins for an old manuscript. The history of the ruin prvoides them a good mystery to unravel, and being out in the boonies keeps them out of Lord do-and-so's way, keeping the impalings to a minimum. Don't want to scare them off to fast! They were rather impressed,however, by the vampiric thirst of the Kayi... I would like to know how other referees out there set up their Tekumel adventures. What kind of preparation, maps, stats??? What do you folks actually WRITE DOWN before play? I think about the game often, coming up with detailed plots, NPC's, and locations, but don't have time to do much writing. Also, I'm very good "on the fly". I guess playing jazz does that to a fellow. I am trying to get links going with other referees, so if anyone else is interested, drop me a line. I'd like to work with others on a master plot that our non-Blueroom players will be completely amazed by. But if there is anyone out there who is, like me, still getting his/her feet wet (as a Tekumel ref), I'd like to hear from you. Also, in the heat of play, I find myself having to bullsh*t descriptions of areas and sects, in response to frenzied interrogation from my players. After the game, I scramble through the sourcebook to make sure I was at least in the ballpark, then retrofit my lines for the next session. They players usually forget exact names an places by the next week anyway. As it stands, they wouldn't know a Ssu from a Serudla... which adds to the enjoyment of their (and my) voyage of discovery. Is this how other people's games are? Basically, I want to hear about the nuts and bolts of other games. Any response or advice would be appreciated. Thanks, Scott [Moderator's Note: You can get in touch with Scott by emailing him at ] [ spkellog@indiana.edu. Maybe you could summarize what ] [ people send to you for the list. ] ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //285 [Moderator's Note: Two responses to Scott's message have come in. David ] [ Bieksza and Joe Saul have sent responses. Of course, ] [ they range from both ends of the spectrum. ;) ] Dave's Response... > I would like to know how other referees out there set up their >Tekumel adventures. What kind of preparation, maps, stats??? What do you >folks actually WRITE DOWN before play? For my "Empire of the Petal Throne" campaign in the 1970's I prepared just about everything in advance -- maps, area descriptions, encounter stats, etc. I even typed up much of this material. By the end of the campaign my 3-ring binder held a pile of paper about an inch thick. ---------- Joe's Response. >Tekumel adventures. What kind of preparation, maps, stats??? What do you >folks actually WRITE DOWN before play? I think about the game often, Not a damn thing. GM technique -- especially preparatory technique -- is very much an individual thing. Mine, however, involves absolutely NO writing. Not ever. There are a couple reasons for this: First: for me, writing is not relaxation, it is WORK. I worked as a technical writer for seven years, and I am now a law student who also writes policy documents and articles. I would never, ever, ever, consider taking the effort to write something only I will ever see. Second: I am an improvisational GM, and I don't need it. Like you, I think about my game a lot. I know what the relevant NPCs are up to; combined with the player actions, that drives the game. I'd like to give examples of this -- especially surrounding the way one of my PCs got suckered into a duel -- but most of my players read this list. ;-) Once I have a good enough "feel" for the world, I don't need written notes; in fact, they seem to get in the way. (Disclaimer: I know other GMs, who are also excellent at improvisation -- but HAVE to have written notes to start from. I just don't work that way myself.) > * * * I'd like to >work with others on a master plot that our non-Blueroom players will be >completely amazed by. But if there is anyone out there who is, like me, Nice idea, but I can't use it, as my players are mostly here. (Hi guys!) > Also, in the heat of play, I find myself having to bullsh*t >descriptions of areas and sects, in response to frenzied interrogation >from my players. After the game, I scramble through the sourcebook to Since my improvisational style requires me to have a very good feel for the world, Tekumel was pretty intimidating to me at first. There's a lot to learn, and your 1996 US/Earth instincts are generally wrong. (In real life, I am a strong civil rights advocate, who believes in equality and justice. A Tsolyani would probably be too confused by my political beliefs even to be offended, but would probably have me impaled on general principles.) I read every sourcebook I could get my hands on, plus the novels, plus the solo adventures, several times before even considering starting a campaign. It still doesn't come as easily to me as _Amber_ or _Traveller_ or _Cyberpunk_ or _DragonQuest_, but it gets easier all the time. This is especially important because I did the exact opposite of what you did with your PCs -- I like political games, for which Tekumel is exceedingly well-suited, so I threw them into the snakepit of upper-class Jakalla. This required the players to have a decent knowledge of the world as well, so I used the _AoT_ solo adventures to generate their characters (that's as close as I'll come to a rules mention; see my post #241 for more information), as well as giving them other reading material. I am fortunate, in that I have access to a relatively large, highly-skilled, open-minded gaming community; in fact, I have more people who want in to my Tekumel campaign than I can accomodate. My players are adjusting well. ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //286 [Moderator's Note: Joe Saul suggests a possible get-together at GenCon. ] I mentioned this on the newsgroup as well, but this is probably an even better place: In the Amber community, we run a lot of games at GenCon. NOT official GenCon events; those are a pain to set up, may (or may not) be subject to 1950s-era content rules, and in general don't interest me. What we do is organize stuff to run in open gaming space. It's much more relaxed that way. I was wondering if there are going to be enough Tekumel gamers at GenCon to make it worth while to try to set some things up beforehand -- even if it's only trading contact information so we can find each other, or meet somewhere at a specified time to schedule games. I'd like to propose that any of you who are going to GenCon, and are interested in getting together there to play (or at least talk about ;-) Tekumel, should send me email. (If Chris is willing, he might be an even better contact, since people could simply respond to the message.) What do you folks think? Joe Saul ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //287 [Moderator's Note: The Professor adds more to the status in Tsolyanu topic. ] [ The questions quoted are from Paul Mason. ] >>If I was, for example, a relatively low clan member, accosted in the >>street by a burly, tanned person with a strange accent, who bore no >>clan insignia and who demanded to know the way to the Hirilakte arena, >>how might I deal with him and preserve my own prestige (there being >>several youngsters of my clan within listening distance)? Should I, >>for example, make a point of responding to his rudeness by adopting a >>more lofty tone than normal, addressing him using /keshitsam/ or even >>/tloshuntsam/ and leaving it at that? Or is there any means by which I >>might be able to make use of a handy city militiaman or other >>representative of authority in order to put the upstart in his place? If you have servants or slaves with you, a gesture to one of them to reply to this insignificant stranger would be sufficient. If you're alone, you might give him a courteous but cold reply (if you're in a good mood), ignore him (if you're out of sorts), or point him at one of the children or to a street vendor, who can answer his question. Normally, you would not trouble yourself to reply to such a lowlife! You don't really need to have him punished, unless he is really offensive. >>Is shamtla a common solution to social problems even at this low level >>in society? And is it not considered gauche to say 'I believe you owe >>me shamtla for that remark!'? Who's going to enforce it? It is like suing a person who has no money here; you may win the case, but you've wasted your money on lawyers, your time, your energy, and your breath. It's not gauche -- it's just useless in such minor cases. Now if a person of another sect accosted you and made rude remarks about your clan, religion, lineage, etc., you might ask for shamtla -- if you have witnesses and a good lawyer, you may get something. >>I know many players and referees who allow the players' unconventional >>manners to work in their favour in Tsolyanu. I don't want to do this, >>but I'm not sure exactly how the Tsolyani protect their etiquette from >>the unwashed apart from the methods involving judicious doses of >>extreme violence. As my games tend to involve more members of the >>lower and middle clans than lofty nobles, this is some importance to >>me! I usually see that player characters are not allowed to "smart off" to Tsolyani persons of quality. If they do it, I'll gently remind them -- out of the game -- that this could lead to shamtla, prison, or -- in extreme cases -- to a quick trip to the impaling stake for lowlife foreigners! I also see that the players are accompanied by a local person, who can warn them, guide them, and keep them from getting themselves into foolish trouble. Imagine a modern street- smart person at the French court in the 1700's -- or in "high society" at a British mansion in the 1800's. To "role play" means just that. Smart jokes and insults -- a very American feature -- should be kept to "out of game" side comments. >>It seems traditional to adopt a Tsolyani identity, but I feel that for >>me my first Tekumel character would be more appropriate: Karunaz, a >>small-time 'enforcer' from Asuaz, who currently lives in Haida Pakala >>and styles himself Karunaz hiAsuaz in an ironic comment on his Livyani >>origins and Tsolyani citizenship. I hope Karunaz is not an impossible >>name for a Livyani. Karunaz is indeed a good Livyani name. The irony of his using a "hi-" prefix is like naming oneself "von Clancy" or "M. le Duc de Mao Tse Tung." The joke will translate well for the Tsolyani, but it won't get your character liked, respected, or treated any differently than other Livyani living in Tsolyanu. It will also get other Livyani slightly annoyed, amused, or angry at this man's pretensions. Some may find it cute, however, and if that's your goal, then great. Phil ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //288 [Moderator's Note: Listmember Peter Bismire asks questions dealing with ] [ Archery and Archers Legions, among other topics. ] I'll try to reply to a couple of Peter's questions. >1/the Ssar tree whose wood among other things is used for arrowshafts, where >does it grow? Ssar wood is obtained from dense thickets of saplings in the swamps around Purdimal. It is often harvested by peasants using shallow boats, woven-reed coracles, etc. A similar plant is found in the Tsechehelnu Swamps in southern Tsolyanu. The Mu'ugalavyani get a very similar wood from a low tree that grows in the the Puru Ab Sharar Swamps; this is harvested, dried, and exported for sale by the nonhuman Swamp Folk who live there. Others are not allowed to get involved in this trade. More common for bows are Ajatl wood, Tiu-tree wood, or a reed called Nal that grows in swampy areas (the Tsechehelnu Swamps again). In Yan Kor and elsewhere, the Tiu-tree -- tall and slender, with black needle-like foliage rather like a pine tree -- is considered best. >2/the Seresh tree is a source of wood for the best bows (I assume this is >similar to the use of yew in Mediaeval longbows) once again where does it >grow? Seresh trees are short but very straight. Staves of this wood keep their spring for quite a long time. The best Seresh wood comes from the Kurt Hills in central Tsolyanu. Again, other places produce different woods that are nearly as good. The Ajatl tree makes good bows. This is grown all through the north: from Mu'ugalavya over through Yan Kor. In the little states of the far northeast, Tiu-wood is preferred, although they, too, have the Ajatl tree. The best feathers for fletching are those from the Kuni bird. Others are used in other places, and even leaves from certain plants are employed in Livyanu. These matters are briefly discussed in the old Zocchi "Sourcebook," pp. 106-ff. We hope to get this up on the FTP site soon. [Moderator's Note: We are about halfway to the point where we can put up ] [ the Sourcebook. ] >3/ "The best bowstrings are made from the Ruqqa plant of eastern Yan Kor and >Saa Allaqi" but on Earth silk had also been traditionally used as a material >for bowstrings could the fibre used for Thesun gauze be used for the same >pupose? I think Thesun gauze is too delicate. It is a very fine fibre but not as strong as Terran silk. Other fibres are used for bowstrings in many places: e.g. the Livyani have a vine-like plant called Chraoz. This is elastic, however, and has to be specially treated by a secret process known to certain clans in order to serve as bowstrings. >Using the information on the archer and crossbow legions of the Imperium in >Armies of Tekumel and Deeds I am trying to clarify the regional preferences >for archery styles and the effect this would have on the equipment used by >these legions. One difficulty is the use of composite bows by people who live on or near the sea. Salt water tends to loosen or destroy the glue that holds a bow's layers together. This is remedied by applications of a varnish- like substance that is found along the coasts around Penom, in the southern islands (Thayuri, Burru, Ganga, etc.), and over to Kheiris in Mu'ugalavya and Hemektu in Livyanu. On every naval vessel you can see groups of sailors squatting around little braziers of coals, boiling their Ssun (the "u" is umlauted, with two dots on it) fruit. These inedible, yellowish bulbous fruit grow back in the forests and swamps all along the coast. The marine legions are adept at applying this. >The Regiment of the Clan of the Silver Lightning (7th Archers). This unlucky >unit (it has even disappeared from Adventures on Tekumel 2/1!) is shown in >Armies of Tekumel as using longbows. While the Legion is/was based at Bey Su >there is no indication of from where it was drawing its recruits. This legion still exists but is currently regrouping and trying to build up its strength again. Recruits are drawn from all over the Empire, as for many other city-based legions. Any reasonably healthy young citizen can join, get training, and serve. At present, this legion is camped near the border of Pan Chaka, where it had been part of a defensive force against the Mu'uhalavyani. The latter defeated the Tsolyani and their Pachi Lei allies, however, and the legion was forced to retreat with the rest of the army. Prince Eselne is encouraging it and providing funds. >The Legion of the Peaks of Kraa (12th Archers) is shown as using longbows >with poison arrows. On Earth most users of specifically poisoned (as opposed >to accidentlly contaminated) arrows did so because of a lack of power in >their bows and the need to ensure a scratch equalled a kill. In the case of >these Sarku worshippers it could be just plain nastiness :) . Do the trees >that provide the wood for the bow staves (Seresh?) grow locally or are they >imported from elsewhere again the Earth analogy has Spanish and Italian yew >being imported into England. This legion gets its arrow poison from some plant (or combination of plants and minerals -- this is not known) in the Kraa Hills. The stuff is not very deadly but can cause wound festering and numbness, which is pretty terrifying for victims. The bows used by this legion are Seresh-wood, produced in the Kraa Hills but not as good as the Kurt Hills variety. Some Ajatl-tree wood is also used, I think. >The Legion of the Clan of the Broken Bough (19th Archers). Based in Fasiltum >this legion appropriately uses composite bows which require less wood in >their manufacture. There is a mention of this city's love for archery. How >does this equate socially eg practice butts outside the city for practice or >something like the Japanese style of indoor archery halls? There is a legion archery practice area just outside the city to the northeast, perhaps 2-3 Tsan away. These troops are currently very prominent in Prince Mirusiya's army. They'll be with him when the siege of Avanthar begins again in earnest after the heat of summer. He hopes they will feather a few Sarku lads. >The Legion of Girikteshmu (23rd Archers). Based in Jakalla and armed with >composite bows. The humidity in this city could cause problems with a >composite bows contruction of wood/horn/sinew held together with glue. How >do the Tsolyani legions obtain their equipment, individual purchase to a set >pattern, bulk order to a contractor? I assume because of the clan structure >of trades that unlike the Roman army which manufactured and maintained most >of its own equipment, either originally within the legion or later through >government fabricae, the Tsolyani equivalent must purchase most of its >requirements. I mentioned the problems of composite bows and humidity above. Ssun- varnish is sold all over the Empire, but the best varieties are in the south, along the coast. The legions usually purchase their equipment in bulk for their troops. They provide examples and patterns to contractors, who then guarantee to make up such-and-such number to those standards. Officers and wealthy recruits can buy their own equipment, of course, and this is frequent. As long as it is as good or better than what the legion provides, they're welcome to do this. >The Legion of the Crystalline Peak (41st Archers) based at Ru (and recruited >locally) is another user of the composite bow. This legion is missing from >Adventures in Tekumel 2/1 and is either regarded as insignificant or my have >been destroyed. I did omit several legions from the "Adventures on Tekumel" series. This was done for the sake of space -- and also because it seemed unlikely that player characters would ever want to join those legions. Thus, "low-class" legions and some provincial and minor units were left out. They still exist -- although we have not heard from either Ru or Fenul lately, what with the Salarvyani pushing into the Gilraya Forests, and the Ssu making inroads as far west as Hundranuu Rise near Sokatis! >From the above the use of the composite bow seems to outweigh the use of the >longbow withn Tsolyanu and this is without even looking at the stave s as >used on crossbows. I would agree. The composite bow is more common for urban-based troops. Village or jungle-based troops tend to use self-bows. >1/ Is there a Tsolyani equivalent to a sauna or Turkish bath? If yes I >assume it is within the clans compound as opposed to a public building. Not that I know of. Baths are very common, with attendant slaves and barbers, manicurists, and other specialists -- as well as prostitutes, musicians, and entertainers of many kinds. These baths are operated by each clan for its own members and their guests. There are public baths, too, but these are pretty disreputable. >2/ Are there specific Aspects to the war gods associated with archery? Are >there any for other gods/cohorts? Do they have festival days? Not that I recall specifically. Karakan may have some Aspect that does this. I'll have to check. [Moderator's Note: Have you done that section of Mitlanyal yet, Bob? ] >3/ A common material for arrow-shafts on Earth has been reeds/bamboo. Is >there a suitable equivalent on Tekumel (or do I have to discover it :) )? No, you need not discover the Nal-reed. This grows in swampy areas all around the continent. There are still other reeds in various remote and tribal regions, which I have not bothered to discuss. Reed arrows are not considered really good, however; the Tekumelani archers think they're too light. Stronger arrows, they say, are needed to penetrate Chlen-hide armour. >4/ What is the layout of a legion's barracks? Does each Cohort have it's own >block within the larger fortress etc.? Legion barracks differ from place to place, period to period, and era to era. A common style of barracks may thus be a square blocky building, built around a central square courtyard, with one side being a headquarters, messhall, quartermaster storerooms, etc., and the other three sides occupied with dormitories, a recreation hall, practice rooms, small shrines to the legion's favourite gods, etc. The central court provides a parade ground, some trees, a garden, etc. There are often open, pillared colonnades around the courtyard, too, where the legionnaires can pass the time when off duty. Only the Thumis legion (the Legion of the Lord of Wisdom) also has a choir-hall,where the soldiers are trained to sing portions of the Lament to the Wheel of Black and other epics a-cappella. >I've noticed in Robert Dushay's item on the creation of Pe Choi charachters >in Gardasiyal that "The Father of Nests" and "The Black Old One" are >regarded as Aspects of Hnalla and Thumis and Hru'u and Ksarul respectively. >Does this apply to other non-human deities eg the Shen "One of Eggs" and >"One Who Rends"? Yes, I think that's a fair statement. The nonhumans decided long ago, during Engsvanyali times, that the humans' deities and theirs must be somehow made to agree and symbolise similar things. Hence, the Pe Choi, the Shen, etc. have declared that -- for practical purposes -- their deities are "the same" (whatever that means to them) as the human pantheon. They have ignored the Livyani Shadow Gods, of course, but nobody knows anything about those deities anyway, outside of their great pyramidal temples. >Also I'm trying to clarify details on two ketketa (sp?) plays which may date >back to Engsvanyali times at least: >the first is set in the First Imperium and is the story of a noble lady who >falls in love with a lord in the service of the Emperor but is forced by >clan considerations to marry his rival. At first her beloved accepts the >situation but eventually the two are united. For a while they keep their >secret until they are discovered by the husband who has been informed by the >ladies tire woman. The husband then uses his influence with the Emperor to >arrange for the lover to be sent into a hopeless battle where he is slain. >He then taunts his wife with the knowledge, she stabs him and then takes >poison.END >the second is set further back in the time of the Dragon Warriors. A Nluss >chieftain sends his two sons to be educated by the priests of Vimuhla in a >nearby city. One of them falls in love with the daughter of one of the >cities nobles. When war breaks out between the chieftain and city the son >has to make a decision between them, and swayed by love, fights in the >forefront of the cities army. First he meets his brother who tries to >persuade him to return to his band. While they are circling and arguing the >girl's two brothers arrive and kill the loyal son. Enraged the traitor slays >them and is cradling his brothers body in his hands when his father enters >and a moving scene ensues before the father slays his traitorous son and >goes on to sack the city and the girl is sacrificed to Vimuhla.END >The problem is that I seem to lack names for both of these. Are you familiar >with the works? I never had the pleasure of seing either one. I'll ask around. If these are Engsvanyali plays, then I'd expect the titles to be in Engsvanyali -- unless somebody has made Tsolyani (etc.?) modern translations? Or do you just want the English names? Phil ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //289 [Moderator's Note: Another batch of multi-questions, this round from Evan ] [ Nitsopoulas, covering numerous topics. ] >The following questions have come up during [my] game. >Background. >The party is currently in Jakalla fleeing from the wrath of the temple >of Sarku and the Ito clan. Both parties are trying to capture the >party and get information from them. The party belongs to a secret >society within the temple of Ksarul and this society is actively >trying to get rid of Dhichune. The Sarku worshippers are trying >to find out who the key players are in this society and what their >plans are regarding the emperor. Fortuneately the society is >organised into cells and the worst that players can do if captured >is compromise the other members of their cell. The party, as of >Saturday night, is in the underworld beneath the city of the dead >outside of Jakalla. One of their companions, the Aridani warrior >Chashana of the Dark Flame clan, has been kidnapped by a member of >the Ito clan (that villian Omel was responsible).The group is trying >to get Chashana back before Omel can take her to the priests of >Sarku for questioning. Unfortuneately the group went to the Dark >Flame Clan and told them what the Ito's had done. Now the Ito clan >is in trouble with Chashana's clan and they (Ito) are pissed off >and want to pay-back the party for their meddling as well as for >their treasonous activities. >The party is about to enter an old tomb recently found by the >temple of Ksarul that is believed to open up(eventually)near the >area where Chashana is being taken to. The tomb is from the first >imperium and is dedicated to Siyenagga 'The Wanderer of Tombs.' >The temple of Sarku is unaware of the existance of this tomb, >or so the temple of Ksarul believes. >The party consists of a priest of Ksarul, human, 3rd circle would >be master of demons named Turisan hiKuradu, the noble Pe Choi >warrior N'ek P'tek, the fetid Ahoggya Sh'ummph the butcher, (who's >only joys in life are killing,farting and cooking gourmet Tsolyani >meals), Sanjesh hiSSankoral of the Black Hood clan a man of great >ferocity towards his enemies and charity towards his friends and >Chashana hi Ssankoral the gorgeous Aridani temple gaurd from Purdimal >who belongs to the Dark Flame clan and wants more than anything else >to have children of her own. >In addition to the main characters six temple gaurdsmen from the >Temple of Ksarul in Jakalla are also with the party. Some of these questions are pretty involved. I will try to answer as many as I can. >1. What are some typical funeral rites from First Imperium times. Did they >mummify the deceased of noble lineage? What about the followers of Sarku, >what did they do with their dead worshippers during the First Imperium? Iam >assuming that not all devotees of the Worm Lord are turned into undead when >they die. The First Imperium generally worshipped Vimuhla-like deities that were those of the Dragon Warriors. The older, non-Vimuhla substrata of society apparently went on worshipping whatever they worshipped. This is not really known today, since it was so long ago, and the archaeologcial record is far from complete! Bednalljan nobles did bury their dead, usually in deep, rock-cut tombs. The dead were wrapped, inserted into stone sarcophagi, and sealed with resin, lead, or some other materials. They were not often embalmed. The followers of Lord Sarku seemto have followed similar customs, embalming their dead occasionally, putting grave-goods in with them (or in storerooms nearby) "to accompany the deceased on his or her journey through the Afterlife," and added underground labyrinths and catacombs to protect the corpses of the mighty. >2. What will the likely response of the Dark Flame clan be to what the Ito >clan did to one of their clan members? Will the Dark Flame clan be content >to just ask for Shamtla or will they act in an eye for an eye fashion? Probably they will not ask for Shamtla, nor will they show any outward signs of the insult. They will wait and take revenge somewhere below ground where the Concordat does not apply. They may take more han just "an Eye for an Eye..." >3. How likely is for an Ahoggya to be a follower of Lord Ksarul and to >belong to a secret society within the temple? Not very likely. An occasional Ahoggya may indeed do this, but these nonhumans are not really interested in faiths like Lord Ksarul's. If they join anything, they prefer Vimuhla, Chiteng, or Karakan. Even then, it is hard to know exactly what they understand of the religion. >4. What will the followers of Sarku and Imperium do if they dicover that the >temple of Ksarul is plotting against the emperor and planning to assassinate >him? They have already discovered this. The situation is extremely tense between these temples. After all, it was a Ksarul priest who got admitted into Avanthar and smuggled Prince Mridobu back in! The coup failed, and Mridobu disappeared, but Dhich'une was not amused. The Concordat forbids even the Emperor from exacting revenge on the Temple of Ksarul, but you can be sure he is planning a response. >5. What are the names of some of Sarku's other 108 aspects? I have the >article, from the FTP sight, on the Temple of Sarku and only a few of the >aspects are named. Alas, I don't have time to go into this. Not all the Aspects are even known to outsiders, anyway. The Temple of Sarku also has some very localised Aspects that are not worshipped everywhere, all across the Empire, but only in one city or region. This would require a book in itself! Wish I had time to write it! >6. Where exactly is Hmakuyal? I have been unable to find it on my maps. I am sure Hmakuyal is on the new map.On the old Zocchi map, look in hex 3708 of the Tsolyani map. On the new ("Gardasiyal") map, look aout 3/4 of an inch to the east and slightly south of Tumissa, and the same distasnce northwest of Katalal. [Moderator's Note: It is on all of them. Just find Tumissa and head east! ] >7. How long ago was the First Imperium from the current time line on >Tekumel, i.e. how many years ago did Nayari rule. Hard to say. Records are lost, histories disagree, and various historians have put some dynasties one after the other, while others have declared them to be contemporaneous. About the best that can be done is to add up the figures in the first few pages of the Sourcebook and see what you get. Then add plus or minus 5-10,000 years! The history is MUCH longer than anything we know here on earth, and the Tsolyani have neither good record-keeping nor good archaeology. The Engsvanyali period by itself is a horrible chronological problem. After that, the Time of No Kings lasted several millennia. The Second Imperium is now 2,367 years old. Compare America's little 200-odd years since the Revolutionary War, or "Democratic" Athens (it wasn't really a democracy) which endured only for 30-40 years before going under. It's been a LONG time... >1. Do the sorcerors on Tekumel have (use) familiars? If they do what form do >the familiars take, are they "mundane" creatures or are they demons or imps? Not really "familiars" in the Western mediaeval sense. They do know and use various creatures from the Planes Beyond. These are usually equals: friends, colleagues, creatures with the same objectives, etc. >2. Where are the clanhouses of the Dark Flame and Ito clan located >(approximately) in Jakalla? ****NOTE: CORRECTION MADE BY JMS PER MARB: Both are in the southEASTERN quadrant of the city, down near the Pyramid of the Unnamed God (no. 51 on the original EPT list and on the map). >3. Do the temple of Sarku have the ability to create Vampires i.e. your >typical night crawling, blood sucker with which we are familiar with in the >West? >If so what is the Tsolyani name for this type of undead. I suppose they could do this, but I doubt whether anybody has been motivated to try. >4. It has been said, in various places, that in addition to those undead >which have been listed in the Bestiary there, exist even more powerful >undead within the inner shrines of Lord Sarku's temples.What are the names >of some these "greater undead"? Are these powerful undead individual types, >or are they a class of undead like the Mrur Jajgi et.al. ? There are no specific names for these. They are more advanced Jajgi, and they function as such. >5. How likely is for an Ahoggya to be "adopted" or accepted into a Tsolyani >clan? What clans, if any, would accept an Ahoggya into their midst? Ugh. Very few! >6. During the last game session that my group and I played a party from the >temple of Sarku broke into the temple of Ksarul and tried to kill one of my >players characters'. The character is priest of the third circle. >Fortuneately he managed to escape and get help, but not until two slaves and >two temple gaurdsmen were killed. How would the temple of Ksarul respond to >this flagrant violation of the concordant by the followers of Sarku? I think I discussed this above. The two temples would never let this become known. Revenge, however, might be taken in the Underworlds where the Concordat does not apply. >7. I have created several magic books, history texts and treatises for "my >Tekumel". Could you please translate the following English titles into >Tsolyani titles for me? >The Book of Walking Unhindered Amongst the Planes. >The Doom of Sarku and his Minions. >The Tome of Binding Those That Would not be Bound. I am sorry that I don't have time. I have several projects cooking right now, and I really have to keep after them. Within your own campaign, you can do about as you please -- it won't be "official" Tekumel, but it will be quite satisfactory for your players. You can thus give them only the English titles (after all, you don't make your players speak and read Tsolyani!), or you can invent a title that sounds good to you and use it. >And could you also translate the title of the following text from English >into Pechani? >The Campaigns against Ssu and the Destruction of Ssuganar. >I like to give my party the Tekumelani name of a book or treatise that they >may discover. Even though the above titles may not exist in the "real >Tekumel" I still think that it will add a bit of colour to my campaign. It >is always so much nicer as a GM to be able to present the books, that the >party discovers, with the proper Tsolyani title. I'll try to get back to your titles later, Evan. If I can find a few minutes, I'll see what I can do. Best regards, Phil ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //290 [Moderator's Note: Chuck Monson replies to the campaign thread. ] Although I responded directly to our inquirer, I would share with you the fact that I too run Tekumel 'on the fly'. I am local color, happenstance, fate and the power beyond the planes who just happens to be amused by the circumstances of the player characters. I tell stories. But my ground rules that differ from the one's mentioned include: Player responsibility: The player is responsible for knowing what his character can do with certain equipment, weapons, spells, or any other tools of his trade. I just don't have the time to re-educate each person in each instance. I just keep 'em honest (sorta)...it IS fanatasy after all. The player should have all the relevant basic material, hit, speed, etc. information at hand. I should just have to keep the story from being unwound to crazily by fevered minds and dice throws. I have memory of admonishments the Professor used at one time: If convinced in reality that a player is just using me as a television set, I shut off the set...and "Even advocates of Dra the Uncaring must draw the line somewhere..." The other comment I would share is probably not different from what many on this line do in research for DM omniscience, but may be more than a beginning DM in Tekumel might hazard: I read on topics of curiousity guided by the background clues: What earth culture really had Sakbe roads? What were town development patterns and urban planning in ancient oriental states? What archaeological drawings might lend interesting color to my words? How to make exotic the 'essences in water' beverage to a bunch of cola-guzzling players? How difficult is it to communicate the need for basic comforts to a person who has little skill in MY language? And ad infinitum...Of course, proximity to an adequate library or bookstore is necessary for some of this research. And then, decades later, when you have multi-cultural philosophies, languages, and taste buds; when you have travelled, meditated, and played amid the rock piles of the world; when these things and more earthy ones have been experienced...THEN you will have a taste of the 'game'. Enjoy! ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //291 [Moderator's Note: This is a multi-topic message, covering the GenCon topic,] [ a question about Play By [E]mail games, a chance to get a] [ highly discounted copy of Gardasiyal, and a couple of ] [ announcements by yours truly. ] -Chuck Monson sends the following.... The idea of flying out to a GenCon is interesting, but there are incredibly CHEAP airfares on the west coast at present. ($50 each way to LA for example this week from Seattle.) we could by arrangement pick someplace interesting to visit and mini-con ourselves in this region to play Tekumel and hob nob. Any takers? Las Vegas maybe? -If there is some interest, email the blueroom, and I'll pass the files to -Chuck, or someone else who can coordinate. -In addition, if anyone wants to meet at GenCon, you can email Joe Saul at -jmsaul@umich.edu -Matthew Pook sends the following question about pb[e]ms. I do have one question for the mailing list. I have been asked by a friend to run an EPT PBM and wondered whether anybody had any advice or ideas. Please, please do not swamp me with requests to play - although I would love to devote some time to a number of players, I am already running one other PBM and have to do some course work sometime. -Brett Slocum came across a bargain, and wanted to let people know. A local game store has Gardasiyal and the individual books, as well as the Bestiary and Book 3 of the Solo adventures on sale for 25% off. I'm willing to ship these for cost to anyone wanting them. That ends up at $33 + $2 sales tax + postage (??). Email me if interested. Brett Slocum slocum@io.com -Mail Brett at the above address. Thanks. -Ok, my entries for this message... Yesterday, I went around to 3 or 4 used book stores, gathering up copies of Man of Gold, and Flamesong. People always seem to have problems finding copies of the books. Well, I was quite successful, and have 7 sets of the books available to our list members. One set has been spoken for, but the other 6 are available. Please, if you have a set and want another, make that clear, as I really want people who don't have them to have first chance. Most of the sets were $3.50, but I figure to let them go at $5 each plus shipping. It took me a couple of hours, and some gas to get around and get them all. I hope you find that fair. If not, let me know. I will send overseas and as many of you know, I prefer that these go to our friends overseas since they have the hardest time finding the novels. That said, I will ship to anyone who asks, I'll just give priority to Non-US residents without a copy first, then to US residents without a copy, then first come first served if you already have a copy. If you are in the U.S., call around to used book stores, you'll be surprised what you can find. I still have numerous other shops here in St. Louis to check out. - For those of you new to the list, I am waiting to send your back messages until we get to Message 300. That is when the newest digest will get created. For our old timers who don't know this, one of our listmembers, Joe Saul has created a set of 30 message digests of the back messages, with the headers stripped off, etc. They make sending the back messages much easier. A tip of the hat to Joe. You've helped make my life quite a bit easier with regards to new subscribers. It is much appreciated! Look forward to some new, exciting announcements coming very soon! ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //292 [Moderator's Note: Scott follows up his campaign question with the following] [ about what time their campaigns are set in. ] I have another question I'd like to pose to the group concerning the campaign timeline. I haven't decided when my game takes place yet (and nobody's asked me, either). Part of me wants to start in the time described in the EPT rules, circa 2354 AS: when princes were princes, and heirs were heirs... Buuuuuuut, on the other hand, would it more interesting to make the latest dispatch the "current news"? Or, on the other other hand, (my secret favorite option), place the campaign, say, five hundred years in the past. Then I could make up all of my own Imperial mumbo-jumbo! I'm not looking for someone to say -authoritarian voice- "your campaign should start at five kiren before dinner on the 13th of Hasanpor in 2366 AS", but some feedback on how others have tackled the question would be appreciated. Regards, Scott ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //293 [Moderator's Note: Evan has some more questions on priestly circles, being ] [ promotioned, and The Lament to the Wheel of Black. ] Dear Chris, >1.) I have often come across in my readings, about Tekumel, the statement >that a particular priest is of such and such circle. I realise that circles >correspond to rankings or levels within the temples. How is a priest >promoted to a higher circle. In game terms does he have to accumulate a >certain amount of xp before he can advance? Or is advancement to a higher >circle something that occurs independent of xp? Does the characters >immediate superior within the temple hierarchy decide whether he or she is >eserving of advancement, if so how would this be handled within the gaming >environ? Would a character be advanced to higher circle if he or she >completed a particularly dangerous assignment for his or her superior? You may want to look over the "Sourcebook" (the Zocchi version, pp. 83-90) and the solitaire adventures book in which I discuss the temples (the blue book, Part Two, vol. 1 (pp. 79 ff.). The "Circles" are not game terms at all but rather ranks within the temple hierarchies. They are not automatic, and they do not depend upon anything a player can count on. They are conferred by the priesthoods, and one goes up in Circle because of perceived skill, personality and relations with others, prestige of his/her clan and lineage, acts that the temple sees as beneficial to its aims, and -- bluntly -- bribes. None of this can be put into hard-and-fast gaming rules without violating "Tekumel Reality." I leave these sorts of things to the gamesmaster. Do with them as you see fit. If your players feel that they aren't being promoted fast enough, send them in to see their High Priest (Ritual, Scholar, or Administrative branches, depending upon their specialisations), and let him/her give them a good dressing down! It would be rather like going in to see the officer of one's army unit and demanding to know why one hasn't been promoted to lieutenant yet! I tend to promote my players only when they are in their home cities and temples -- and when I think they've deserved it by proven loyalty to the temple, friendship with their hierarchy and colleagues, and "enhancements." >2.) There are many references made in the Tekumel world about the epic The >Lament to the Wheel of Black. Has this ever published in an article or essay. >Perhaps in one of the old Tekumel Journals or Dragon magazines? If not is >possible that you could post a few stanzas (in English)? I would appreciate >some lines that I could use in my game. One of the PC's is a priest of >Ksarul and I know that he would enjoy reading about the battle of Dormoron >Plain and it would be great in establishing the right 'Tekumel atmosphere'. There is no English translation for this long epic. The thing is in "High" literary Engsvanyali -- and there are at least a dozen Engsvanyali versions, some differing in just a few lines, but others that include whole new passages (particularly the version used in the temple of Ksarul, which puts things in quite a different light from those preferred in the temples of Hnalla, Karakan, etc.) The "Kheiris Recension" is considered the best -- it is about 125,000 verses long -- but it is difficult to use because of textual problems, obscure Engsvanyali vocabulary, and the like. The recension put out by the temple of Sarku is probably a later forgery, as can be seen from its various late and corrupted Engsvanyali forms. The epic is also supposed to go back to Bednalljan times and before -- possibly even to Llyani -- but existing manuscripts are incomplete and fragmentary -- and quite possibly later forgeries made to "look old" for religious reasons. The temples each teach their "Classics" in their academies, much as British and American schools teach Shakespeare (or at least they used to in my day!). Copies of the Lament are sold in very bookshop throughout Tsolyanu, Mu'ugalavya, and Yan Kor, although not in Livyanu. The scholars of Tsamra opine that the Battle was rather a sideshow put on by the gods of Pavar to solidify their control over the world; the Livyani Shadow Gods, they claim, were either not involved or else were on the sidelines. The Salarvyani have their own epic version of the Battle of Dormoron Plain, too, but I don't know much about it. (Somebody recently told me, too, that there is a version of this struggle in one of the Naqsai languages of the southern continent -- Sunuz? -- and it is VERY different...) I'm afraid that no good English version exists, although you can find some discussion of the Battle of Dormoron Plain in the 'Book of Ebon Bindings" and perhaps in the Sourcebook as well. I may get out more on this later. Best regards, Phil ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //294 [Moderator's Note: Peter still has a few questions on Archery. ] Legend >> -- Phil's original responses > -- New questions -- Phil's response >>One difficulty is the use of composite bows by people who live on or >>near the sea. Salt water tends to loosen or destroy the glue that holds >>a bow's layers together. This is remedied by applications of a varnish- >>like substance that is found along the coasts around Penom, in the >>southern islands (Thayuri, Burru, Ganga, etc.), and over to Kheiris in >>Mu'ugalavya and Hemektu in Livyanu. On every naval vessel you can see >>groups of sailors squatting around little braziers of coals, boiling >>their Ssun (the "u" is umlauted, with two dots on it) fruit. These >>inedible, yellowish bulbous fruit grow back in the forests and swamps >>all along the coast. The marine legions are adept at applying this. >What colour is Ssun varnish and could it dyed, thus allowing the bows to be >multi-coloured and decorated (as here on Terra)? Ssun-varnish is usually a dark reddish brown or maroon in colour. Yes, it is often dyed or lacquered over, allowing lots of fancy patterns and decorations. These are usually each soldier's individual choice -- and distinguish one man's bow from his comrade's. >On Terra the use of the composite bow went hand in hand with what is called >the thumb-draw or Mongolian release. Is the same true of Tekumel? The thumb-ring is indeed used. It is often specially processed Chlen- hide or sometimes bone. I have seen a few metal and stone specimens, but these are relativey uncommon. The nobility often practice archery as a sport, however, and their equipment is lavish indeed. >If yes, an important part of the archers equipment was a thumb-ring these >could be leather, wood, stone (precious or semi-precious)or metal. The >design could be something like a guitar plectron to a cylinder. Both had the >facility to be highly decorated as status symbols. Do Tekumelyani archers >use something similar? > >Thanks >Peter Phil ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //295 [Moderator's Note: I am happy to make the following announcement. It deals ] [ with the release of some new, that's NEW Tekumel material] [ that will be released as our first new netbook. Please ] [ read the following for details. ] I have some great news. The Professor has written a new 35 page document on Engsvanyali history. We will be making this brand new work available on the Blue Room ftp site, as a shareware netbook. The price to register this book will be $10. I'll send out a message as soon as it is available for down- loading. It is NOT avalailable yet, I would like to get a feel for interest. Please respond as to your interest, and make the subject of your response "Engsvanyali", so I can quickly cull those messages out of the regular Blue Room traffic. If this initial release goes well (ie. we get enough registrations), we will be following this with some other new material. If there aren't enough registrations, or the registration to download ratio (I will be scanning my log files) is too low, we will have to find alternative ways to release new material in print format. So, get your ftp/web clients heated and ready. It should be up on the ftp site soon! Chris ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //296 [Moderator's Note: Lisa Leutheuser asks the following questions about clans.] Here are my best guesses at the answers Lisa wants. >First, which clans are considered "noble?" All of the "very high" clans? >Some sub-set of only the highest of the very high? Or something else? It is hard to give a hard and fast rule for which clans are "noble." We know that the Clan of Sea Blue is descended (or claims to be) from the Bednalljan nobility/royalty; Golden Bough and Golden Sunburst both brag about descent from Engsvanyali aristocracy similarly, as does Might of Ganga (the Priestkings themselves!). The Vriddi don't care about any of this, claiming their descent from the Dragon Warriors -- or Vimuhla himself! The Ito are sure that they were lords of the Chakas before any of these parvenus arrived. Cloak of Azure Gems boasts that it was part of Lord Ksarul's retinue at Dormoron Plain. Blade Raised High claims descent from the palace guards of the Engsvanyali Priestkings. It's all relative (:-). Some clans are rated higher than others in certain cities, while elsewhere they are rated somewhat lower. Thus, Blade Raised High is considered the elite in Katalal and Usenanu, whereas in Mrelu (a Ksarul stronghold), the Ksarul clans take precedence. As they used to say in Boston -- I think I'm quoting correctly -- "The Lodges speak only to the Cabots, and the Cabots speak only to God..." >Second, how does a person become the head of their clan? Or even, the >head of their particular clanhouse in a city? Is it a hereditary position >carried down through one particular family or linneage? Is the person >"chosen" by the clan elders? Or is some other method used? Does the >method of choosing a clanhead vary from clan to clan? Clan leaders are usually selected by the elders (and this is itself a relative term) within a given city. Thus, at the Golden Bough clanhouse in Jakalla, for example, the clan elders gather in the West Hall on a weekly basis to discuss business, finances, clan relations, political problems, etc. etc. If a clan leader has just resigned, died, or done something so disgraceful that he/she is removed from office, the group then considers the election of a new leader. Age, experience, political clout, lineage, friends in high places, "benefactions" done for the clan by the candidates (money, gifts, favours) are taken into consideration, and the clan elders come to a consensus. In most cases this is a secret ballot: white or black marbles dropped into a pot. Clan meetings are rather informal. Some clans choose a clan leader for life; others set term limits (a year, five years). This differs from place to place, clan to clan, and time to time. Every couple of years -- again, not a clearly defined period -- the clan may call a general clan meeting nationally (or internationally, if the Mu'ugalavyani and Yan Koryani branches are in the mood). The clanhouse in some major city offers to be host, and representatives travel thither with carts and slaves loaded with records, documents, clan-members, and gifts for one another. The meeting usually lasts a couple of weeks, and near the end a clan leader for the whole clan is elected by a vote or by consensus. (Again, this differs from clan to clan, etc.) This person is the clan's representative to the Imperium. With politics being in such a mess these days, this has not been done recently, and the clans have not met or selected their agents. Emperor Dhich'une asked for representatives to decide on agricultural and business policies, but many clans didn't respond -- they're not too fond of him -- and hence many matters are left in abeyance while the civil war drags on. Clan membership is based on birth: any free citizen born to a member mother or father can be a clan member. Clan leaders have tended to be elected, but some few clans are hereditary (the Tlakotanis, for example, always take the Emperor as their clan leader -- but he/she is represented at meetings by a symbolic image of the Seal). This is partially discussed on p. 91 of the Zocchi "Sourcebook." Regards, Phil ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //297 [Moderator's Note: The Professor speaks to Scott's question about the time ] [ setting of a campaign. ] Those who want to set their game timelines to something other than mine are more than welcome to do so -- goes without saying, but I said it anyway. Rather like setting one's Monopoly game in Atlantic City, New Jersey, in the early 1930's rather than in the 1990's. Setting your timeline 500 years ago would put you roughly in the reign of Nrainue "The Iridescent Goddess," who ruled from 1809 to 1872. That was a rather easy, stable time, and your players would certainly not encounter the mess of civil war that is going on now. Any earlier, and you'd be in the reign of Emperor Durumu "the Copper Blade of Sarku," (1747-1809), and that was a bloody, ugly period indeed! Putting your game into 2354 is also a good idea, I think, because the early rules and other materials were all oriented towards that. Today the situation is pretty confused: a Sarku Emperor on the throne (illegally, say many), with Prince Eselne snapping up territory in the west; Prince Rereshqala taking Thraya and Sokatis in the southeast; Prince Mirusiya and the new Ksarul Prince, Taksuru, joined together and besieging the outskirts of Avanthar in the centre; and the Mu'ugalavyani in Pan Chaka and trying to push the Pe Choi in Do Chaka into joining their side. Very fragmented, very brutal. The Empire has weathered situations like this before, of course, and things eventually get back on an even keel again -- for a while, and then somebody else comes up to rock the proverbial boat... Anyhow, set your campaign where and when your players will have the most fun. Don't worry that it is not current "authentic" Tekumel. Play and enjoy! Good luck! Phil ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //298 [Moderator's Note: Back when Lisa asked for a list of Livyani names, another ] [ listmember, James Fetzner copied names from the Troop list] [ for Livyanu and the Tsolei Isles. These names required ] [ some editing. I have finally gone through the Professor's] [ database and checked on spelling, etc. Thanks James... ] [ Sorry it has taken so long to work this up everyone. ] Following is a list of Livyani names, positions/titles, and place of origin, as drawn from the Armies of Tekumel, Volume V, Livyanu and Tsolei. Note that all instances of the letter "u" with an umlaut have been replaced with the letter "u", to maintain the current proper spelling. Map spellings are the current ones, (ie. Hemektu, instead of Xemektu). I hope this helps all of you looking for original Livyani names -- a slight note of caution though, I had to do a _lot_ of interpretation on spelling here, as the original document was reproduced from a low quality computer printout (those of you who have the original know what I mean), and interpolation was sometimes extremely difficult. (Jim, thanks for your herculean effort here, I have helped by fixing --hopefully-- all of the spelling errors!) :) A listing of Livyani names follows, as drawn from the Armies of Tekumel, Volume V, Livyanu and Tsolei: NOTE: Dumuz is a title which translates to "Brother-in-the-Faith" Dumuz Asqar Gyardanaz, Principle Staff of the Glory of Qame'el, Tsamra Suruz Dashquz, Chief Priest of Qame'el, Qaqqodaz of the Lluneb of the Hunched One, Tsamra Eaz Druob Shienaz, Qaqqodaz of the Lluneb of the Little Moon, Tsamra Vuoz Kaodiz Chaqqib, Qaqqodaz of the Lluneb of the Planet Garu'u, Tsamra Niaz Zhaggao, Qaqqodaz of the Lluneb of the Planet Muo, Sraon Chauvaz Deshshuqomez, Qaqqodaz of the Lluneb of the Great Moon, Nufersh Dumuz Sheumayuz Buodla, Senior Commander, Charoneb of Tsupil Hlaya, Tsupil Hlaya Riumaliz Mu'uveliz, Senior Priest of Kirrineb, Qaqqodaz of the Lluneb of the Ritual of Divine Praises, Tsupil Hlaya Eumiz Disulu-Kang-Dlok, Qaqqodaz of the Lluneb of the Ritual of the Journey of the Dead, Dnash [Moderator's Note: The Professor adds that Dnash is a small town, not on ] [ the map, near Tsupil Hlaya. ] Dyaomaz Shritlimano, Senior Commander, Charoneb of Laigas, Laigas Guoz Bilitlanu'u, Chief Priest of the Horned God of Secrets, Qaqqodaz of the Lluneb of the Horned God of Secrets, Laigas Vusomish Daqqo, Qaqqodaz of the Lluneb of High Tlashte, Trahlu (Mu'ugalavyani Renegade in the Service of Livyanu) Niudaomi Haosaz, Qaqqodaz of the Lluneb of the Lost One of the Sea, Laigas Du'uz Saomire, Qaqqodaz of the Lluneb of the Obelisk, Tsupil Hlaya Riumaliz Murushu, Senior Commander, Charoneb of Hemektu, Qaqqodaz of Lluneb of the Dead Hand of Quyo, Hemektu (Governor of Prefecture of Hemektu) Tiudaz Murushu, Brother of Riumaliz Murushu, Hemektu Do'onish Divraimu, Qaqqodaz of the Lluneb of the Shallows of Ngiu, a Mu'uagalavyani Renegade in the Service of Livyanu Dumuab Disib Chaoseb, High Priestess of Kirrineb at Hemektu, Qaqqodaz of the Lluneb of Kirrineb, Hemektu Dumuz Siruoz Mandakiz, Senior Commander, Charoneb of Neihai, Neihai Huoz Milsaoz, Qaqqodaz of the Lluneb of the Priests of Ndarka, Neihai Dumuz Chri'iz Baosamuz, Qaqqodaz of the Lluneb of the Priests of Qame'el at Neihai, Neihai Dumuz Chaomiz Kitaz, Underpriest, Diodaz Commander of the Charoneb of Neihai, Neihai Ruoz Mashiu'uz, Qaqqodaz of the Lluneb of the Bronze Gate, Hrais Dumuz Gyumiz Nmiriz, Qaqqodaz of the Lluneb of the Pinnacle of Euz, Hrais Dumuz Easuz Aoviddeb, Qaqqodaz of the Lluneb of Nirusama, Kakarsh Tuoz Misheb, Kakarsh Euz Misheb, Son of Tuoz Misheb, Qaqqodaz of the Lluneb of Tuoz Misheb, Kakarsh Dumuab Kaeb Esueb, Senior Priestess of Kirrineb, Senior Commander of the Charoneb of Nufersh, Qaqqodaz of the Lluneb of the Black Beetle, Nufersh [Moderator's Note: Phil adds "And a nastier lady you will not meet on any ] plane...!" ] Zhuvaz Aodioliz Qa, Qaqqodaz of the Lluneb of the Third Eye of Vrusaemaz, Nufersh Buoz Reosamaruz, Chief Merchant, Qaqqodaz of the Lluneb of the Merchant Princes of Nufersh, Nufersh Miuz Baratlab, Khuaz of the Lluneb of the Merchant Princes (and Qaqqodaz in fact, if not in name), Nufersh Mikuz Easamuz, Senior Commander of the Charoneb of Sraon, Sraon Vrauqaz Hi'usu'umiz, Qaqqodaz of the Lluneb of the Sea Goddess of Kakarsha, Sraon Haumaiz So'o, Qaqqodaz of the Lluneb of the Sword of Ndarka, Sraon Haiz Uo, Qaqqodaz of the Lluneb of the Singing of the Rituals of Ru'ungkano, Sraon Euz Asomu, Qaqqodaz of the Lluneb of Kikumarsha, Sraon Heomuluz Kang-Dlok, Senior Commander of the Charoneb of Dlash, Qaqqodaz of the Lluneb of the Web of Fears (uncertain information), Dlash Deuz Kang-Mmral, Qaqqodaz of the Lluneb of the Servants of Fear, Dlash Miyutlayo Kang Seth, Senior Sorceror, Diodaz of Dlash, Dlash [Moderator's Note: The Professor adds, "He disappeared some years ago and ] [ never resurfaced. He probably 'got et', as one might ] [ charitably put it when dealing with demons.... ] Tiudaz Murushu, Senior Staff Priest of Ru'ungkano, Qaqqodaz of the Lluneb of Tiudaz Murushu, Tlashte Hills Artuz Haluz Dio, Qaqqodaz of the Lluneb of Those Who Conquer, Tsamra Chunu Nyedz Boizhu, Priest of Guodai, Qaqqodaz of the Lluneb of the Might of Guodai, Tsamra ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //299 [Moderator's Note: Evan Nitsopolous asks the following question about heresy ] [ on Tekumel and how the temples would handle it. I am in- ] [ cluding the whole message first, so you can get an idea of] [ what Evan is getting at, and the Professor quotes specific] [ sections he speaks to. I added a few questions/observa- ] [ tions at the end when I sent the message to the professor ] [ also. ] >I have a question on heresy and how the temples of the Five Empires would >handle it. >Let us assume that a figure like Christ or Muhammed arose on Tekumel. He >swept across the country-side proclaiming that the institutions/Gods that >the people followed/worshipped were false. The Gods of Pavar were false and >there was only one True God, essentially they advocated monotheism. Now let >us further suppose that this prophet(s) started to gather a large following >amongst many of the segments of society.The prophet(s) further demonstrated >that their God was the only God by some kinds of major miracles, that the >other temples could not perform or copy, even with their advanced lore in >spells. What would the other temples do in response to this? Is the >ecclesiastical situaton on Tekumel such that the other temples would >tolerate this new god or would they react violently towards this new sect. I >would further state that this new diety is a benevolent one who has only the >desire for societies' welfare on his mind. Not like the Pariah Gods. The gods are too real for "miracles" to make much impression on the Tekumelani public. What you and I would consider "miracles" are old hat to the sorcerers of the temples: flying, fireballs, visions in the sky, healing, etc etc. The gods cannot thus be doubted, not when they occasionally reply to prayers, perform "miracles," and otherwise show up to awe their clien- teles. How can these "gods" be false when everything humans demand of a "god" is available from them and through them? Anybody who argues that the "gods" are false is clearly not all that compos mentis. One can argue, indeed, that the "gods" are not theological "gods" (or "God"). This has been argued many times before by numbers of people. The question is moot, however: the definition of a "god" has changed over the millennia to suit present circumstances. A "god" is what is available on Tekumel now; any other concept would have to be proved, and that is very difficult. I might argue that light is a substance that is carried and delivered to my eyes by hosts of tiny burden- bearing invisible angels. Unless I have pragmatic proof this -- or reasons to believe this over any and all competing theories -- I will be delivered to the local funny-farm posthaste! It is the same with the "gods": using them as an explanation for phenomena is relatively easy, compared to arguing that the world is created, run, and otherwise operated by a single omnipotent, omniscient Entity who doesn't really seem to have power over much of anything! After all, how many mighty visions does He create -- not long ago, but today? How can His teachings be obeyed when one has trouble finding out what they are -- without getting into contradictions? God is quoted as saying "thou shalt not kill" -- and then letting Moses go back to camp where they were worshipping the golden calf and putting many of the worshippers to death (or having his followers do it). The problems of a theological omnipotent, omniscient God are difficult to overcome. But, let's say that a "reformer" does arise. No problem, really. It has happened lots of times on tekumel before. An heroic young priest of Thumis, one Sanjesh hiKirisaya, called "The Young Master" by his devotees, wandered around southern Tsolyanu for a couple of years preaching love, mercy, gentility, and peace. He never questioned the reality of Thumis but did question Tsolyani attitudes and culture. Eventually, he settled down in Usenanu with a rich and loving wife, an estate, and lots of fun artefacts of the Great Ancients. Another reformer, also called "The Young Master," raised the tribes of Kilalammu to rebellion for awhile. He was much loved, much copied -- and heavily pursued. I can't say what happened to him since the civil war in Tsolyanu. Reformers come and go. Nobody qustions the reality of the "gods" because they're too easily provable. This does NOT disprove the reality or lack of reality of a THEOLOGICAL "God" (or set of "gods"). It only shows that humankind is easily satisfied. >Let us assume that a figure like Christ or Muhammed arose on Tekumel. He >swept across the country-side proclaiming that the institutions/Gods that >the people followed/worshipped were false. Hard to prove, especially to the common folk, who love miracles and shows. >The Gods of Pavar were false and >there was only one True God, essentially they advocated monotheism. Now let >us further suppose that this prophet(s) started to gather a large following >amongst many of the segments of society. Why would any large segment of society follow this idea when their own "gods" are so easily shown to be true? >The prophet(s) further demonstrated >that their God was the only God by some kinds of major miracles, that the >other temples could not perform or copy, even with their advanced lore in >spells. I can't think of miracles that the twenty temples cannot also perform. Not every temple performs the same spells, and all this might do would be to add a new "Aspect" to one of the existing gods. In South India I have, with my own eyes, seen statues of Mahatma Gandhi standing as an "avatar" of Vishnu. In the same temple, I have seen a statue of the king who built the temple (Tiruvallu Naik) held in similar veneration. I was told that Jesus Christ was no more and no less than another Avatar of Vishnu the "Maintainer," and that some early Hindu scholars would have been happy if the Muslims had accepted a role of "Avatar" of Vishnu for Allah! The iconoclastic, monotheistic Muslims declined the offer. I doubt whether benevolence per se would be much of a drawing card for a new "god." The Tekumelani deities fit into very neat and predictable "slots," sociologically and philosophically. Both Avanthe and Thumis have "benevolent" sides, while the others value other features of the human psyche -- some not so pleasant. Well, give it a try, if you wish. I'll be interested to see if anybody would accept the falsity and unreality of their "gods," whatever the theological position. Not when the "gods" are demonstrably "real." Maybe they're not "theological," but they are surely useful to their loyal worshippers... >I would think that it would happen very much like Pavar, it seems to me that >each of the Gods (or at least their servants) can do things the others can't. >Priests of Hru'u and Wuru can cast Silver Halo, but Sarku, Ksarul, etc can't. >What does that prove? Unless there was a test that this "new" god could not >pass, which would show that he/she was no different than one of Pavar's >deities. Even if he was similar but different from Pavar's "gods," he could still be fitted into the Tekumelani pantheon, just as the Pariah Gods, Shiringgayi, Hrsh, or any number of other localised deities have been made to fit. So he's a god... >If, however, no matter what challenge was placed before this >"prophet", he could meet the challenge, what effect would that have on >Tekumelani Society? Probably not much. The society is far older and more encrusted with conservative tradition than was the Roman Empire. The new "god" would be fitted in, somebody would build him a temple, and life would go on. People will have conflicting opinions on this problem. I'm always willing to entertain new ideas, but this is ground I have been over many times before. As my sainted granddad used to say, "A difference of opinion is what makes for horse-racing.." ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable. //300 [Moderator's Note: Chuck Monson responds :) to Scott's message about when to] [ time a campaign. And David Chatterjee adds some info on ] [ The Lament to the Wheel of Black. ] 5 kiren? Dear it will take at least six kiren to choose dining apparel..... Chuck ----- Mark Wigoder-Daniels wrote a three-page articles on the Lament to the Wheel of Black in the Eye of All-Seeing Wonder (issue 2? - don't know if it's sold out.) Dave Chatterjee. ----- Chris Davis Moderator, The Blue Room blueroom@prin.edu The Blue Room's FTP site: http://nexus.prin.edu or ftp://nexus.prin.edu Available 24 hours a day, except when my PC is down, or unavailable.